1. #11
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  2. #12
    Yup, I understood what you meant NTESLA... my point, more roughly spoken... its basically worthless heading in that direction unless somehow one sees himself with those types of resources in the future. IF one is prepared to fork out the dough to travel down that path (and I mean serious money) then I am sure it will be incredibly rewarding and interesting. I would LOVE to be doing that kind of stuff in my future, but I'm a realist and I really don't see it happening unless I am somehow involved in the actual industry (note: Nick Ryan is a professional director, in other words, he does it for a living. He has directed commericials, promos, shorts and documentaries. So he has access to the resources, both financial and human. Something that we (I would think) lack. So while hoping that "A Lonely Sky" is where we end up at in the future, my guess would be that it's a pipe dream.... cool one... but a dream nonetheless.

    Prove me wrong though, I would like nothing less than for that to happen .

    So whats the next step if that was the road to go down? Bluescreening has already been accomplished so that is not the next step. The next step is more sets and better image.... ooo.... there's that money issue again though . A camcorder recorded image is always going to look amatuerish and second rate so an investment in an HD prosumer camera is almost a requirement. I guess one could try sticking with a camcorder but it will never move forward from "low end fan film" until a proper camera is used.

    MrVH
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  3. #13
    Originally posted by MrVH:

    Prove me wrong though, I would like nothing less than for that to happen .

    MrVH
    I am not trying to prove you wrong MrVH .. more pointing out that in Lonely Sky everyone worked for nothing .. thats why it is freely available for download from the internet.

    Your right in saying that Nick has a track record in film, so that would have made it easier for him to convince hard up-out of work actors to play these parts for nothing.

    Everything in this movie to me is top drawer, from the acting to the CGI content.

    Other comments ..
    Bluescreening has been done .. yes, but it still has to be perfected in flight-sim machinima, do you have a blue/green screen map for IL2 for instance .. one that you can film one of the aircraft flying then place that over other film footage?

    Better sets and images .. yes that does take money and not all will be able to afford that right away .. but with every thing the prices will come down.

    There are many roads for machinima to go down and the more these roads are traveled the better the production values will become.

    For some of the machinima producers that transition will become easier as the eyes of the media giants are on you. Some may get offers of work (paid) help you to push your art to new hights. TV houses are tuning into the fact that they are losing ground to the internet and younger viewers, many of those younger viewers are watching machinima in whatever form it is.

    We have 4 producers as members at Gamerztheatre who from there Machinima films have found paid work, infact one producer has had an fantastic offer, she is relocating to Canada from England to work FULL time with a games company making machinima and promo machinima for that game and others. All expences paid. At least one of your members is drawning attention of the media as well. (No names mentioned MD )

    Gamerztheatre has grown quickly in one short year .. from around 100 vistors per day to around 1500 p/day. I know that TV companys are regular visitors to us.

    F.H and C was a huge success story for you all which took you two years to produce, how long would it have taken if you had tried to add green screen and other unused inovations?

    *Just one other note .. you mentioned Cee Gee in the passing .. this producer found his full time work through making his CGI films and is now working with EA Sports in Italy as senior artist.

    Great disscussion this .. and thanks for posting it.

    Gas
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  4. #14
    Originally posted by wolfbics:
    reminded me of "The right stuff" particularly the bar interior which I thought was identical, lovely little movie.
    Same here Wolf. In fact, the first few minutes I thought that this was just a few ripped scenes from The Right Stuff added to some custom acting. I just couldn't believe the B29 was CGI and he must have used footage from the film. I had to go back my Right Stuff DVD to realise that Lonely Planet was 100% authentic, though probably inspired by The Right Stuff!

    The X1 was more obviously CGI, just because it couldn't have been real, duh! Plus the camera angles were a bit suspect. It wasn't obvious by the quality of the model, that was perfect.

    MrVH, maybe we (I) should aim our sights a bit more realistically then. Knowing that we will never be able to produce this kind of work, or realistic humans, while sitting in our homes, alone, with a computer and software.

    If our intended audience is one which accepts that he/she is watching a story made from CGI and a game, then maybe they will also accept a CGI human if not too distracting.

    I was thinking of the latest inclusion of CGI humans in that Stuka movie. The models were awful, but it was a comedy, cartoon type, so it wasn't that important.

    But maybe, we (you! lol), can show some acceptable looking humans for more serious ventures?

    I do also agree that CGI can certainly be used to show interiors for adding to a story. That was proved in FH&C, of course.

    I look forward to the first serious attempt at humans, then. Once the ball starts rolling, CGI artists will be in big demand!
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  5. #15
    Oh yer, and I'd love to see more people using other gmaes to bring in human figures, like ArmA.

    That could be the other way to go if the models are able to be moved and skinned in the way you want, and used with a green screen background.

    I don't know anything about this, so welcome more information. Who fancies doing a wee demo of a figure from ArmA scrambling and running to his Spitfire!?
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  6. #16
    Guys... The WW2 realistic game ever (Russian German front)... some guys are modding (British vs Italian front) and others...

    www.redorchestragame.com

    I have that game but i dont know where to get players to the film wich could combine with IL2.

    PS. The game haves good tank battles as it's sim. Example. 15 Tigers vs 10 T34 (Russian tank).
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  7. #17
    Well, the thing about AA (as opposed to Red orchestra or any other shooter) is that it has a mission builder/editor so you can set up your own scenarios, these dont have to be action or even military in nature, you can script two guys walking down the road into a bar, whatever you want. I remember some of the stuff that came out for i'ts predecessor Op Flashpoint and there were movies of people walking dogs on beaches and God knows what else. Also you can simply incorporate landscapes which look vastly superior to IL-2 with falling leaves, insects, birds, swaying grass etc, in fact the best game environments I've seen, although if SOW looks decent this might be less useful, this guy has a short vid just illustrating landscapes
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KlIvZEAyAv0
    He's also made a AA WWII test movie,
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6YQmQYX20o
    this is only the second one I've seen (he has'nt filmed this in the editor so it looks jerky). I contacted him to see where he got the WWII mods as I cant find it, or even if it's generally available, seems there's only one floating about so far which is some basic uniforms/weapons and only for one side apparently, nothing vaguely Teutonic in there.
    To do a test with anything other than this you would need more mods, might be a year till you get a complete conversion mod I know there's at least one in progress with vehicles (and apparently some aircraft) and thats really what you need, all you could do at the moment is portray some period ground action as he has done in a custom made scenario, remember that even if you scripted a pilot walking across an airfield or something he would need to be modded with 1940's gear.
    I cant use the editor in AA BTW although I'm sure it's similar to any full mission builder, just have'nt spent any time on it.
    All I would do at the moment is try to match up an IL-2 mission with say a similar grey rainy European envionment which looks like the above movie assuming you made the same scenario and then you have your Spits flying over "X-ville" village at the end of your movie (or whenever), then troops take the village...cut to AA scene above....etc.
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  8. #18
    NTESLA's Avatar Senior Member
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    For those who doubt the present and future of 3D animation; I present:

    http://www.beowulfmovie.com/

    http://www.apple.com/trailers/paramount/beowulf/
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  9. #19
    GL2's Avatar Senior Member
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    Interesting discussion. Where people take this hobby will depend on where their interests lie. I'm glad to see some are interested in the CGI path and some the live-action path.

    As the graphics in games get better and better, the 'need' for live action decreases. There's a lot that can be done well with FPS games now, although I'm surprised there hasn't been more integration of other game engines than there has been. While making FH&C, we demoed some software that allows you to sync an FPS-character's mouth movements with the dialogue of a voice actor. Software advances are making it possible to do some amazing things on your own now.

    I think we'll be seeing more live action integrated with machinima in the future. Like everything else, it will look better as people learn how to do it better. You really don't need an HD camcorder to get great results, but you do need to know how to properly light your subjects and a thing or two about post-production color correction. The efforts so far have impressed more out of novelty than the quality of the compositing. Some basic color matching would go a long way, not to mention a more sophisticated storyline. But as demos, they show a glimpse of what is possible.

    MrVH is right about the complexities and expenses of a large live-action production. It's still doable, but it's not something you would undertake on a whim.

    The nice thing about keeping everything virtual is that you can work at your own schedule and not have all the logistical issues that come with working with actors (equipment, props, costumes, coordinating schedules, lemon spritzers on demand for the director, etc.).

    I think MrVH's next project will be very interesting to see, BTW.

    Ntesla, if you're interested in pursuing live action, you should get in touch with MataNishu. He is a film student living in your state and is looking for someone to collaborate with him on a project. It would be an invaluable opportunity to hook up with independent filmmakers in your area and observe a live-action production firsthand. Here's his thread asking for help:

    http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/t...8/m/6151002575
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  10. #20
    NTESLA's Avatar Senior Member
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    Thanks GL2! I am already working with MetaNishu so something nice should be coming out from this collaboration.

    There is future in what we do, no matter what track one wishes to pursue. Movie making has become a hobby much more than flight simming which is what brought me here to begin with!
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