1. #171
    Bearcat99's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally posted by MO_JOJO:
    I think had the colonists remained loyal to the king and followed his plans, France would have ceased to exist at some point in the early 1800's, followed by Spain. But regardless, people want local jurisdiction and control, and revolution is inevitable. Unless you're Canadian.
    Nahhhhh I dont think so.. plus keep in mind that the ruling families of these countries were mostly related by blood or marriage.. not that that ever stopped any wars.. but I agree with stathem.. I think Britain would have been happy just having the lions share of control over Europe... and had the colonies remained loyal to Britain I also think that a lot of the fighting between the Euros over here in America might have lasted longer... but as has been said.. the split was inevitable.... There was just too much money and resources over here for someone to just work it and then hand it over to the crown...
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  2. #172
    stathem's Avatar Senior Member
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    Quick question, when did you buy Louisiana off the French?
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  3. #173
    Originally posted by Jungmann:
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">quote:
    Originally posted by DmdSeeker:
    Interesting thread.

    I can understand why the Americans posting in this thread assume that because thier forfathers had both rejected the European continent and had a pioneering spirit the break with England was inevitable; but I'd like to ask them what, in thier own eyes, diffentiates them from Australia?
    Everybody who came to America wanted to be there. Still applies.

    My 2 cents about the inevitable split--Britain treated the Colonies like all their colonies, as a cash cow, to be taxed up the wazoo, to make the Yankees have to buy British goods off British ships at higher prices than they'd pay elsewhere (say, the French), and as a handy garden for all that good stuff they couldn't grow at home (tobacco). Americans finally got p***ed. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Overstated. Ever seen the movie Amistad? I think that a few Africans and West Indians would disagree that they wanted to be there.
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  4. #174
    Originally posted by stathem:
    Quick question, when did you buy Louisiana off the French?
    1803. I believe the land purchased was somewhat bigger than modern Louisiana. Jefferson got it for $15,000,000.
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  5. #175
    stathem's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally posted by Low_Flyer_MkVb:
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by stathem:
    Quick question, when did you buy Louisiana off the French?
    1803. I believe the land purchased was somewhat bigger than modern Louisiana. Jefferson got it for $15,000,000. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Thanks L_F. I guess the price would have been somewhat higher if the British had still been in control.
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  6. #176
    jensenpark's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally posted by MO_JOJO:
    I think had the colonists remained loyal to the king and followed his plans, France would have ceased to exist at some point in the early 1800's, followed by Spain. But regardless, people want local jurisdiction and control, and revolution is inevitable.
    Unless you're Canadian.
    Hardee har har...someone made a funny.
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  7. #177
    MLudner's Avatar Banned
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    Originally posted by RCAF_Irish_403:
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MLudner:
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Low_Flyer_MkVb:
    For those more interested in following the course of written constitutions (the British are still waiting for one of their own, btw) the following links may be of interest. As I've already posted 'An agreement of the people' from 1647, I've left it out. Perhaps I should also include the Gettysburg address and the 13th ammendment, or the European Convention on human rights, but there's enough here for the genuinely interested to be getting on with. I make no apology for including so much Thomas Paine - I feel his contibution to both the American and French revolutions is often sadly neglected. Of particular note is the section in the last link containing constitutions from various modern nations. If you follow these links, you'll appreciate the derivative nature of such matters and hopefully concur that it's a very rare political animal indeed that acts purely for the people they so often claim to represent. These links are by no means exhaustive and are posted in the hope that at least some of you will delve further into such matters, emerging with a greater understanding and respect for what people of all nations have done in an attempt to better the lot of their fellow man.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athenian_democracy

    http://www.bl.uk/treasures/magnacarta/magna.html

    http://www.ushistory.org/paine/commonsense/index.htm

    http://www.ushistory.org/paine/crisis/index.htm

    http://www.ushistory.org/paine/rights/index.htm

    http://www.ushistory.org/paine/reason/index.htm

    http://www.history-magazine.com/codenap.html

    http://www.leftjustified.org/leftjus...t/wtp/wtp.html
    I have already read all of those, they are in my personal library (I also have the collected writings of Thomas Paine), save for that last which was so predictably vacuous that for a moment I thought I had blundered into a black hole......or at least so far into the vacuum of deep space that I could not see even a single star. The merest of pretense. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    The last link is a page dedicated to a posting of the Magna Carta, the Declaration of Independence and the US Constitution.......vacuous? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Did you go any deeper than the first page?

    I did.

    The first page is the merest of pretense.
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  8. #178
    MLudner's Avatar Banned
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    Originally posted by stathem:
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Low_Flyer_MkVb:
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by stathem:
    Quick question, when did you buy Louisiana off the French?
    1803. I believe the land purchased was somewhat bigger than modern Louisiana. Jefferson got it for $15,000,000. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Thanks L_F. I guess the price would have been somewhat higher if the British had still been in control. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Napoleon would not have sold it to them. Jefferson; yes, the British; no. But, then, considering that Napoleon lost the wars in the end, the British might have just taken it.
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  9. #179
    MLudner's Avatar Banned
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    Originally posted by Low_Flyer_MkVb:
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by stathem:
    Quick question, when did you buy Louisiana off the French?
    1803. I believe the land purchased was somewhat bigger than modern Louisiana. Jefferson got it for $15,000,000. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Somewhat bigger, yes: It reached all the way to the Pacific Ocean in modern day Oregon and Washington.
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  10. #180
    Bearcat99's Avatar Senior Member
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    This is why I just love history so mucvh.. it is so fascinating to see how we do.... the cause and effect of it all.....
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