1. #161
    MLudner's Avatar Banned
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    Originally posted by Bearcat99:
    I was wondering when you would get here professor....

    I was avoiding it to avoid being banned after getting into a knock-down drag-out with some leftist yahoo. In the end I could not avoid the temptation.

    I'm doomed...
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  2. #162
    WWMaxGunz's Avatar Senior Member
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    There were the Puritans who some descendants seem to feel they own the country or should be
    able to dictate how everyone should act, who should run for office... always good for a
    witch hunt and finding someone to burn. BTW, I have one ancestor that was there 1615 but
    left for Nova Scotia when her old man died so I'm not picking on outsiders there.

    New York City started as Nieuw Amsterdam (sp?) and was anything but Puritanistic.

    The DuPonts were given a lot of land by the King of France. Hello Delaware.

    William Penn got a huge tract and was very fair minded from the start.

    I dunno the history of Virginia past Jamestown but tobacco revenue made up like 20% of the
    Crown income.

    Georgia was a Penal Colony.

    A very mixed bag that never started as a whole by any means.

    How many Hugenots ended up in the US? I know of at least some descendants in the states.
    We have people of all bloods here in solid numbers before 1900.

    Where I live there are many ethnic clubs that maintain their own buildings and are generally
    open and friendly to everyone. Once I got to know the place, I live in one very nice city at
    least on average. I can eat authentic Hungarian cooking just down the street not 1/2 mile.

    In the first decades of US history the whole thing near fell apart more than once over states
    rights, taxes and border squabbles. Perhaps when England attacked in 1812 it did us a favor
    in uniting again against a common enemy. We got a couple of pretty good songs out of it to
    boot, The Battle of 1814 and The Star Spangled Banner.
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  3. #163
    MLudner's Avatar Banned
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    Originally posted by Low_Flyer_MkVb:
    For those more interested in following the course of written constitutions (the British are still waiting for one of their own, btw) the following links may be of interest. As I've already posted 'An agreement of the people' from 1647, I've left it out. Perhaps I should also include the Gettysburg address and the 13th ammendment, or the European Convention on human rights, but there's enough here for the genuinely interested to be getting on with. I make no apology for including so much Thomas Paine - I feel his contibution to both the American and French revolutions is often sadly neglected. Of particular note is the section in the last link containing constitutions from various modern nations. If you follow these links, you'll appreciate the derivative nature of such matters and hopefully concur that it's a very rare political animal indeed that acts purely for the people they so often claim to represent. These links are by no means exhaustive and are posted in the hope that at least some of you will delve further into such matters, emerging with a greater understanding and respect for what people of all nations have done in an attempt to better the lot of their fellow man.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athenian_democracy

    http://www.bl.uk/treasures/magnacarta/magna.html

    http://www.ushistory.org/paine/commonsense/index.htm

    http://www.ushistory.org/paine/crisis/index.htm

    http://www.ushistory.org/paine/rights/index.htm

    http://www.ushistory.org/paine/reason/index.htm

    http://www.history-magazine.com/codenap.html

    http://www.leftjustified.org/leftjus...t/wtp/wtp.html
    I have already read all of those, they are in my personal library (I also have the collected writings of Thomas Paine), save for that last which was so predictably vacuous that for a moment I thought I had blundered into a black hole......or at least so far into the vacuum of deep space that I could not see even a single star. The merest of pretense.
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  4. #164
    MLudner's Avatar Banned
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    Originally posted by Bearcat99:
    I was wondering when you would get here professor....

    It seems you have been in this soup from the start.

    How ever did you survive this long?
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  5. #165
    WWMaxGunz's Avatar Senior Member
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    You insist on poking a Bear, not once but twice? He is not a fish.
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  6. #166
    MLudner's Avatar Banned
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    Originally posted by NekoReaperman:
    au contrare, something like 75% of the colonists wanted to remain under the british crown, and another sizable portion didnt care either way
    I'll see your Au contraire and raise you one more:

    Au contraire. Exact numbers are not known as the Gallop and Zogby organizations were not yet in existence.

    But, it was divided by thirds approximately. Early on the middle leaned a bit toward the crown, but they had swung the other way toward the end.
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  7. #167
    MLudner's Avatar Banned
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    Originally posted by WWMaxGunz:
    You insist on poking a Bear, not once but twice? He is not a fish.


    I believe he will recognize the friendly nature of my replies.

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  8. #168
    I think had the colonists remained loyal to the king and followed his plans, France would have ceased to exist at some point in the early 1800's, followed by Spain. But regardless, people want local jurisdiction and control, and revolution is inevitable. Unless you're Canadian.
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  9. #169
    Originally posted by MLudner:
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Low_Flyer_MkVb:
    For those more interested in following the course of written constitutions (the British are still waiting for one of their own, btw) the following links may be of interest. As I've already posted 'An agreement of the people' from 1647, I've left it out. Perhaps I should also include the Gettysburg address and the 13th ammendment, or the European Convention on human rights, but there's enough here for the genuinely interested to be getting on with. I make no apology for including so much Thomas Paine - I feel his contibution to both the American and French revolutions is often sadly neglected. Of particular note is the section in the last link containing constitutions from various modern nations. If you follow these links, you'll appreciate the derivative nature of such matters and hopefully concur that it's a very rare political animal indeed that acts purely for the people they so often claim to represent. These links are by no means exhaustive and are posted in the hope that at least some of you will delve further into such matters, emerging with a greater understanding and respect for what people of all nations have done in an attempt to better the lot of their fellow man.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athenian_democracy

    http://www.bl.uk/treasures/magnacarta/magna.html

    http://www.ushistory.org/paine/commonsense/index.htm

    http://www.ushistory.org/paine/crisis/index.htm

    http://www.ushistory.org/paine/rights/index.htm

    http://www.ushistory.org/paine/reason/index.htm

    http://www.history-magazine.com/codenap.html

    http://www.leftjustified.org/leftjus...t/wtp/wtp.html
    I have already read all of those, they are in my personal library (I also have the collected writings of Thomas Paine), save for that last which was so predictably vacuous that for a moment I thought I had blundered into a black hole......or at least so far into the vacuum of deep space that I could not see even a single star. The merest of pretense. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    The last link is a page dedicated to a posting of the Magna Carta, the Declaration of Independence and the US Constitution.......vacuous?
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  10. #170
    stathem's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally posted by MO_JOJO:
    I think had the colonists remained loyal to the king and followed his plans, France would have ceased to exist at some point in the early 1800's, followed by Spain. But regardless, people want local jurisdiction and control, and revolution is inevitable. Unless you're Canadian.
    That's not strictly true; Perfidious Albion was never really interested in dismantling or obliterating the other European powers, just ensuring that none of them had controlling interests in the others. See "balance of power politics"

    The British Army (and the Portuguse) fought to liberate Spain in the first half of the second decade of the 19th century, not to occupy or enslave it.
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