1. #131
    Hi Bearcat,

    Quote:
    "I think pretty much all the European nations were on shaky ground over here... they were so busy fighting amongst themselves and they brought that over here.. but there was enough of a 3rd party with its own intrests that werent tied up in Europe to make the split inevitable.. even if some other country like France or Spain.. who were the biggest contenders outside of England..... they couldnt hold onto thier colonies over here in NA either..."



    Agreed. I don't think any of the European powers could have held sway for long from that time. Given all the conditions that prevailed, I think the USA, or an independent nation very much like it, would have developed regardless.

    Even the American Civil War almost a century later could in all likelihood only have ended one way, IMHO. [Hope I'm not opening another can of worms there!]



    Best regards,
    panther3485
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  2. #132
    Aaron_GT's Avatar Senior Member
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    As I've already posted 'An agreement of the people' from 1647

    Thanks for doing that - it saved me some typing!
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  3. #133
    MB_Avro_UK's Avatar Senior Member
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    Hi all,

    I was the Original Poster and I have learned a lot so far

    I'm a Brit and was wondering if the American War of Independence resulted in the only British Colony that was lost as a result of military conflict during the 18th and 19th Centuries?

    And at a time when the British Empire was at its height.

    Did all Americans at that time view themselves as 'rebels'?

    Also guys....PLEASE keep this thread on topic...current political issues are NOT 18th Century..

    Best Regards,
    MB_Avro.
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  4. #134
    Bearcat99's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally posted by panther3485:
    Hi Bearcat,
    Quote:
    "I think pretty much all the European nations were on shaky ground over here... they were so busy fighting amongst themselves and they brought that over here.. but there was enough of a 3rd party with its own intrests that werent tied up in Europe to make the split inevitable.. even if some other country like France or Spain.. who were the biggest contenders outside of England..... they couldnt hold onto thier colonies over here in NA either..."


    Agreed. I don't think any of the European powers could have held sway for long from that time. Given all the conditions that prevailed, I think the USA, or an independent nation very much like it, would have developed regardless.

    Even the American Civil War almost a century later could in all likelihood only have ended one way, IMHO. [Hope I'm not opening another can of worms there!]

    Best regards,
    panther3485
    I had a thread in here called the "Who we are" thread. It was a poll.. Ill have to post another one... I dont know what happened to it.
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  5. #135
    In the past 6 months I have finished reading biographies on both Ben Franklin and John Adams. The causes of the American Revolution can be rightfully put at the feet of those who administered the colonies.

    "He has dissolved representative houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly firmness his invasions on the rights of the people.

    He has refused for a long time, after such dissolutions, to cause others to be elected; whereby the legislative powers, incapable of annihilation, have returned to the people at large for their exercise; the state remaining in the meantime exposed to all the dangers of invasion from without, and convulsions within."


    Delegations were sent from the Colonies to England to treat on these matters decades prior to 1776. Ben Franklin was involved in some of these ventures. The Colonist wanted to have some say in the process of taxation, either with their own members in Parliament or some sort of consenting authority via the Colonial legislatures.Certain interested parties like the Penn family with there great land grant, didn't want the colonist to gain any representation in Parliament and saw to it that it was snuffed out by their allies. The Penns were notorius for their autocratic rule in Pennsylvania. By how these honest men came forward and placed their greviences forward to only be bemused and attacked by their cousins across the pond it doesn't take a genius to see why Franklin went to England a solid Loyalist and returned a revolutionary.

    "He has kept among us, in times of peace, standing armies without the consent of our legislature."

    The Boston Massacre was mentioned earlier, Paul Revere had a hand in the propaganda there as he made that famous engraving of the scene that provoked so many people. There was a trial for the British soldiers and only the two that had initially fired their weapons were convicted. To say that these men were provoked was certainly a truth, as stones and other objects were placed in those hardened iceballs thrown at them, but luckily they had an appointed lawyer who was able and saw the need to put justice ahead of personal belief. That man was John Adams.
    But again the people did feel that they were under they were being placed underfoot as they had to house these soldiers in their own houses and the colonial legislatures taxed them to feed and pay them.

    "For cutting off our trade with all parts of the world:"

    Some of the other greviances that the Colonists had were the restriction over manufactured goods. NONE were allowed to be produced in the Colonies, only in England. This meant that all goods, beyond what a smith could forge, had to be shipped in across the pond.

    Slavery was an issue that was divisive amongst the colonist. Abigail Adams when she viewed the building of the original Whitehouse she thought the whole process slow and inefficient. She watch the two owners of the slaves chat away as their slaves worked slowly carting off stones from the site. New England day laborers, in her opinion, were more efficient and industrious than what she had seen there.

    These are just a few comments, and a little rambling. It does seem that Ben Franklin was right when he talked about the misue of the American Colonies by the British crown, to hinder its industries and character, that grew inspite of the hand that guides the government.

    Remember as Franklin also said which is my retort to the Patriot Act:

    "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

    Also, Machiavelli commented to control a people you need to slowly remove their rights by little bits so that they would not notice their loss.
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  6. #136
    Hi Avro,

    There were indeed 'loyalists' Americans who fought on behalf of the British.

    A very good book on the subject is 'The Fate Of A Nation: The American Revolution Through Contemporary Eyes' by William E. ******* and Hugh Rankin. (1975) Phaidon Press.
    ISBN 0 7148 1644 2

    Loads of period documents and illustrations coupled with a balanced narrative that explains the conflict and the views of the people involved, making inroads into the propaganda of both sides. It's one of my 'Desert Island Books'. If you have even a passing interest in the subject, see if your local library can track down a copy.
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  7. #137
    MB_Avro_UK's Avatar Senior Member
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    Thanks Low_Flyer,

    I'm new to the subject and it seems to me to be worth reading up on

    Best Regards from north London,
    MB_Avro.
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  8. #138
    Originally posted by MB_Avro_UK:
    Hi all,

    I was the Original Poster and I have learned a lot so far

    I'm a Brit and was wondering if the American War of Independence resulted in the only British Colony that was lost as a result of military conflict during the 18th and 19th Centuries?

    And at a time when the British Empire was at its height.

    Did all Americans at that time view themselves as 'rebels'?

    Also guys....PLEASE keep this thread on topic...current political issues are NOT 18th Century..

    Best Regards,
    MB_Avro.
    Glad you learned something Avro. I know I don't really know too much about the history of Britain except a few little points that are part of a couple of my historical interests (Read the 14th C. and Hundered Years War)..

    However, it's really not surprising that this thread has de-railed itself into a politically fueled quagmire. It just had the fuel for it. It was only a matter of time before someone brought Iraq into it, and you see how things fell into place.

    Personally were I a moderator on this board I doubt this thread would have made it to 7 pages in length... The Lock would have occoured long ago. I'm not some kind of censor but one thing I've definatly learned in my short 25 years on this planet is that the hardest thing to change in another human being is their Opinion and what they believe in. People are set in their ways, and for some reason it always seems Political Debates never stay civil for long..

    So please, lets save the Political assault threads where they belong, on other boards, and keep this one free of the headache.
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  9. #139
    MB_Avro_UK's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally posted by I_KG100_Prien:
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MB_Avro_UK:
    Hi all,

    I was the Original Poster and I have learned a lot so far

    I'm a Brit and was wondering if the American War of Independence resulted in the only British Colony that was lost as a result of military conflict during the 18th and 19th Centuries?

    And at a time when the British Empire was at its height.

    Did all Americans at that time view themselves as 'rebels'?

    Also guys....PLEASE keep this thread on topic...current political issues are NOT 18th Century..

    Best Regards,
    MB_Avro.
    Glad you learned something Avro. I know I don't really know too much about the history of Britain except a few little points that are part of a couple of my historical interests (Read the 14th C. and Hundered Years War)..

    However, it's really not surprising that this thread has de-railed itself into a politically fueled quagmire. It just had the fuel for it. It was only a matter of time before someone brought Iraq into it, and you see how things fell into place.

    Personally were I a moderator on this board I doubt this thread would have made it to 7 pages in length... The Lock would have occoured long ago. I'm not some kind of censor but one thing I've definatly learned in my short 25 years on this planet is that the hardest thing to change in another human being is their Opinion and what they believe in. People are set in their ways, and for some reason it always seems Political Debates never stay civil for long..

    So please, lets save the Political assault threads where they belong, on other boards, and keep this one free of the headache. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Good point I_KG 100_Prien ,

    Let's see how this thread goes...

    Best Regards,
    MB_Avro.
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  10. #140
    Copperhead310th's Avatar Banned
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