1. #1
    shobhit7777777's Avatar Senior Member
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    The franchise as a whole has not seen ANY major evolution in the core gameplay since the second game. A suprising amount of stale and unimaginative elements like "Exotic Gameplay" have crept in, and the core mechanics and basic issues have been left unaddressed. Each new instalment adds new mechanics (Territory control, Notoriety, Brotherhood, Dens, Bombs etc.) but NONE addresses the most basic issues at hand. The Enemy AI is still smart as a squirrel, the Social interactions need massive work, the ability to remove armour and affect our ability to blend, Freedom in mission planning and execution etc. I keep expecting these issues to be take care of with each instalment but I am constantly disappointed. How can the devs leave something like AI out? Not only are they thick as bricks, they lack any aural sensitivity and have the FOV of a SPOON. As a Stealthy player this murders the immersion (pun intended) and the gameplay. Or when I blend with a group of Potato Sacks and suddenly become COMPLETELY invisible. As a game about an Assassin and Social Stealth (A heavily touted feature in the first game...in fact it's USP) the mechanics are VERY underwhelming. Instead of these we get "Exotic" gameplay, Seriously who in the hell thought that driving a tank through a corridor shooting pre-positioned mooks would be a good idea? Is this a mobile game? Where is the creativity? the innovation?

    I see the developers talking about 'Bomb crafting' 'Assassin's Dens' and all which is cool but what about basic needs that allow the core mechanics to evolve?
    Ubi, Keep developing the Bombs, the Hooks and the Dens...it adds value but NOT at the expense of more important and game affecting mechanics...which are needed in the first place.

    It's like the devs have a massive list of 'Must Have/Cool ****' and try to keep shoehorning it into every successive title...without regard to the already established gameplay mechanics, which suffer due to a lack of polish. Disjointed gameplay mechanics.

    On a positive note. I love how the bomb crafting allows for a lot of Stealthy tactics....plus the Assassin's Dens seems like a very cool idea (See a natural progression of an existing mechanic, fully fleshed=more awesome)
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  2. #2
    eagleforlife1's Avatar Senior Member
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    I agree with everything you say, although I don't like the idea of the bombs. We're basically playing as Batman now. What I would like to see is a cover system; that would really add to the stealth of the franchise.
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  3. #3
    misterB2001's Avatar Member
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    Havent you kind of answered your own question? Brotherhood & Revelations are pretty much side games to keep us entertained until AC3.

    They are going to surely save all of their best ideas/improvements for AC3?
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  4. #4
    shobhit7777777's Avatar Senior Member
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    @MisterB
    Havent you kind of answered your own question? Brotherhood & Revelations are pretty much side games to keep us entertained until AC3.

    They are going to surely save all of their best ideas/improvements for AC3?
    Revelations is the Fourth title in the series, regardless of the absence of the 'IV' it has undergone MASSIVE development, they recreated a whole new city and citizens and a plethora of new mechanics, yet still the basics are left out. If the ability to remove armour (a super simple request) is being saved by Ubi for the true 'III' game then I think Ubi is lacking in creativity.

    So, ACR is less of a sidegame and more of a complete game in it's own right and even after 4 releases we are still suffering with aforementioned issues....I could let it slide till Brohood, but Revelations was a massive disapointment and made me question Ubi's sanity. Why not fix the minor yet important issues?

    And even if we do consider them 'side-games' shouldn't THEY have made the minor additions and leave the big stuff like Brotherhood and Bombs for the true 'III' game?

    I see a pattern of creating new mechanics without fleshing the existing ones out. It's like I said, the devs have a looooong list and want to cram it all in...which although is pretty cool does detract from the gameplay.
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  5. #5
    ham_vet001's Avatar Banned
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    Originally posted by shobhit7777777:
    @MisterB
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Havent you kind of answered your own question? Brotherhood & Revelations are pretty much side games to keep us entertained until AC3.

    They are going to surely save all of their best ideas/improvements for AC3?
    Revelations is the Fourth title in the series, regardless of the absence of the 'IV' it has undergone MASSIVE development, they recreated a whole new city and citizens and a plethora of new mechanics, yet still the basics are left out. If the ability to remove armour (a super simple request) is being saved by Ubi for the true 'III' game then I think Ubi is lacking in creativity.

    So, ACR is less of a sidegame and more of a complete game in it's own right and even after 4 releases we are still suffering with aforementioned issues....I could let it slide till Brohood, but Revelations was a massive disapointment and made me question Ubi's sanity. Why not fix the minor yet important issues?

    And even if we do consider them 'side-games' shouldn't THEY have made the minor additions and leave the big stuff like Brotherhood and Bombs for the true 'III' game?

    I see a pattern of creating new mechanics without fleshing the existing ones out. It's like I said, the devs have a looooong list and want to cram it all in...which although is pretty cool does detract from the gameplay. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
    Revelations a disappointment? You've played it already?
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  6. #6
    shobhit7777777's Avatar Senior Member
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    @Ham_vet
    Revelations a disappointment? You've played it already?
    No I haven't, but the lack of the aforementioned tweaks is certainly a major disappointment...as I expected Ubi to fix them at least by the 4th title.

    P.S

    Please dont make 'Quote pyramids' its bad practice. Just quote the relevant bit. Makes the replies easier to read and keeps the threads smaller.
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  7. #7
    ham_vet001's Avatar Banned
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    OK well judging by your first post you feel the game is meant to be primarily a stealth game, since that's what you like. But the devs seem to want the franchise to be a mix of open combat, stealth and tomb-raider style exploration. So the stealth elements of the game won't get as much attention and fine-tuning as you would want.
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  8. #8
    misterB2001's Avatar Member
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    They have to include some upgrades yes, they will add things like bomb crafting and the brotherhood to see if it works and tweak it here and there, but anything game changing, out of this world stuff will be kept back for AC3. (imo)
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  9. #9
    shobhit7777777's Avatar Senior Member
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    @Ham_Vet
    OK well judging by your first post you feel the game is meant to be primarily a stealth game, since that's what you like. But the devs seem to want the franchise to be a mix of open combat, stealth and tomb-raider style exploration. So the stealth elements of the game won't get as much attention and fine-tuning as you would want.
    Well, the first game certainly tried to be a stealth game or pretended to be one.
    Personal playstyle notwithstanding, the pillar that the game was built on player freedom, social stealth and freerunning. The devs have focused on completely new mechanics which is fine as long as they keep tweaking/evolving the existing ones.
    AC as a franchise is inherently a stealthy one...and the issues with AI and realism are glaring, but have not been addressed.

    And the very fact that I feel the devs are trying to steer the ship into strange waters seems like a schizophrenic feature-creeping development method.

    Stealth needs to be fleshed out more, the AI for both combat and stealth needs to be revamped....and crowds (one of the key aspects of the game) need to be entirely reworked...and this could have been done in instalments over the 3 games but so far zilch. Now maybe ACR is doing something new, but I doubt it given the fact that a majority of the focus is towards crafting, dens and the hook...all cool but tell me one thing does this take precedence over enemy AI and crowd interactions in a game like 'Assassin's Creed' given it's roots?

    A lil OT:
    Another example of Schizo design. There are certain missions where Stealth is forced on...a major facepalm in a game like AC where player freedom should be given primacy...on top of that you have half baked mechanics which make the whole stealth exercise either a joke or a frustrating, blood boiling event. The AI makes the stealth a joke (killing a rooftop archer, standing next to his corpse and the nearest guards is only slightly suspicious)and the detection parameters is there SOLELY to make stealth 'seem' hard enough. The designers tried to get away with the obvious flaws by using the ol punishing trial and error methods.
    When people said 'More Stealth' it doesn't mean you shoehorn in insta-fail missions. You add more mechanics and subsequently make the AI more intelligent.

    @MisterB
    They have to include some upgrades yes, they will add things like bomb crafting and the brotherhood to see if it works and tweak it here and there, but anything game changing, out of this world stuff will be kept back for AC3. (imo)
    Upgrades?

    Dude, no offense, but the 'upgrades' you mention are fully blown features and touted as such.
    Dens, Brotherhood, Crafting, hook blade etc. Add Brotherhoods contributions and you have a proper sequel. These are massive mechanics and could very well have been saved for the next game (glad they didn't) but what about realism/immersion breaking flaws like I mentioned? shouldn't they have been fixed? Don't you feel that simply adding a tweak to the armour system (not even make it affect stealth rating) is a viable and doable option for the 'Side games'?
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  10. #10
    kriegerdesgottes's Avatar Senior Member
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    See I don't know where people are getting this AC is supposed to be a stealth game crap from. It's simply not true. The first game was a revolution because of FREEDOM. That's what the games are about. You can be aggressive, stealthy, or play however you want. In the first game you could sneak in through rafters, blend in with priests or kill everyone (my personal favorite). It's not 100% stealth.
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