1. #171
    Airmail109's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally posted by GoToAway:
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Treetop64:
    Regardless of what good others may or may not do, some people will always find reasons to hate and kill others. And there are others, unfortunately, who lack fortitude of mind and allow themselves to be manipulated into doing ghastly things to others, in some "holy" name or whatever...

    The fact is that the problem will never go away. Period. It is naive to think that something can be done to eliminate the "source" of hatred and solve the problem. Finding a source of the hatred that people tap into is a virtual impossibility. There are as many sources of hatred as there are people who hate.

    It doesn't matter what people do, there will always be those that want to see others burn, and there will be some "rational sounding" reasoning to accompany it. It's just a simple fact of humanity. All we can do is to deal with it as best we can, and live with the consequences.
    If you truly believe this, then question why no American, Briton, Frenchman, German, Japanese has managed to kill 3,000 of his countrymen and pull his country into a decade long multi-trillion dollar war.

    There are Tim McVeighs, IRA operatives, French terrorists, and ultra right-wing Japanese that perpetuate acts of terrorism, but not one of them has managed to tap into something that galvanizes literally millions of people to a cause.

    Al Qaeda and middle eastern terrorism does just that.

    It transcends mere hatred and "religion." It's something that speaks to the consciousness of millions. And that is not not a war that can be won with bullets and guns.

    Humans are, by nature, selfish and rational. It doesn't matter what race or creed they are. The problem is that a climate exists in which people believe their very existence is threatened, and in this climate they will do anything to defeat the "enemy."

    The only way to break this cycle is to show them that the west is not the "enemy."

    Killing bin Laden was a necessity as his was a locus for hatred. But we need to follow up this act of violence with acts of reassurance. If we don't, his followers will simply use his demise as an excuse for a new campaign. If we speak to the moderates, then the fringe elements will eventually die off.

    Which is precisely why, despite the injustices perpetuated every day by the US and UK governments, you don't really have to worry a whole hell of a lot about being blown up while walking down a New York or London street. Their respective political systems, flawed as they may be, alienate the fringe.

    And that is how to end the threat of global terrorism. And it's not something that can be accomplished through bombs and bullets alone. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    +1 I think they tap into the same frustrations that Che Guevara did. I mean do their governments actually share their oil money with the people and build decent states? Like **** they do. The sooner the Middle East becomes democratic the better.

    "Where a government has come into power through some form of popular vote, fraudulent or not, and maintains at least an appearance of constitutional legality, the guerrilla outbreak cannot be promoted, since the possibilities of peaceful struggle have not yet been exhausted." - Che guevara
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  2. #172
    GoToAway's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally posted by Aimail101:
    +1 I think they tap into the same frustrations that Che Guevara did. I mean do their governments actually share their oil money with the people and build decent states? Like **** they do. The sooner the Middle East becomes democratic the better.

    "Where a government has come into power through some form of popular vote, fraudulent or not, and maintains at least an appearance of constitutional legality, the guerrilla outbreak cannot be promoted, since the possibilities of peaceful struggle have not yet been exhausted." - Che guevara
    I don't debate that...

    But I think the question on the table is: CAN the middle east westernize? The governments there don't want it, and the corporations here don't want it. The people there may want it, but "the people" have very little power in this world.

    The issue is much more complex than "some religious fanatics are filled with hate and want to destroy the west."

    It's something that involves centuries of history and huge amounts of contemporary governmental corruption and corporate greed.

    The revolutions sweeping the middle east at the moment are the first thing to threaten the status quo there in centuries. Whether or not it will take remains to be seen. I hope it does, because it will benefit the world at large greatly only to the detriment of a few dictators and CEOs.
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  3. #173
    M_Gunz's Avatar Banned
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    Originally posted by Ba5tard5word:
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bo_Nidle:
    The media in the UK is becoming increasingly vocal about the "unarmed" bit.
    lol, wtf is their problem, are they seriously upset about it? Someone remind them about the thousands of unarmed people who went to work on 9/11 or decided to take a flight that day. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    You do know that in Pakistan there are now people going to bed without the bribe money they should still be getting? Serious.
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  4. #174
    M_Gunz's Avatar Banned
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    Originally posted by horseback:
    By extension they assume that our western societies’ wealth and power is the direct result of their deprivation, not having had anything equivalent to a Renaissance, a Reformation or an Age of Reason.
    You have GOT to be kidding, right?
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  5. #175
    M_Gunz's Avatar Banned
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    Originally posted by Aimail101:
    I mean do their governments actually share their oil money with the people and build decent states? Like **** they do.
    -cough-Kuwait-cough-
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  6. #176
    M_Gunz's Avatar Banned
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    GTA in some countries they keep the people in the dark and as stupid as possible while manipulating their information sources and preaching politics through their religion, creating a large far right sub-culture out of touch with the rest of the world.

    Now if that can work for the Tea Party then why not for Muslim fundamentalists, huh?
    I ask you, does either make sense? Or need to within itself? They preach hate and eat it with big spoons.
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  7. #177
    Airmail109's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally posted by M_Gunz:
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Aimail101:
    I mean do their governments actually share their oil money with the people and build decent states? Like **** they do.
    -cough-Kuwait-cough- </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Yeah that's about the only one that does. How much does Saudi Arabia invest in developing alternative industry to oil? Instead the Sheiks just line their pockets.
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  8. #178
    M_Gunz's Avatar Banned
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    The Saudi's have put a lot of money into desalinization and other technologies that serve them well. Why should they pour money into alternative fuel when they have plenty for themselves? That would be like England spending money on new ways to seed clouds.
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  9. #179
    Airmail109's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally posted by M_Gunz:
    The Saudi's have put a lot of money into desalinization and other technologies that serve them well. Why should they pour money into alternative fuel when they have plenty for themselves? That would be like England spending money on new ways to seed clouds.
    Alternative industry? Do they produce wealth through many other means other than oil?

    What about the other tinpot dictatorships?
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  10. #180
    M_Gunz's Avatar Banned
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    Originally posted by Aimail101:
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by M_Gunz:
    The Saudi's have put a lot of money into desalinization and other technologies that serve them well. Why should they pour money into alternative fuel when they have plenty for themselves? That would be like England spending money on new ways to seed clouds.
    Alternative industry? Do they produce wealth through many other means other than oil? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I don't know -all- the ways but they do play the market and Rupert Murdoch's partner-in-Fox is a Saudi prince.
    I bet if you check into it there's a lot of Saudi money invested in your country too.

    What about the other tinpot dictatorships?
    Saudi Arabia... tinpot... huh? I wouldn't call Iran that either and I do call them a lot of things! No by Jingo, I wouldn't!
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