I know all about hydrostatic shock.Originally posted by Aimail101:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by M_Gunz:
With hydrostatic shock the bullet doesn't have to hit a major artery. In general the brain gets jellied by the same shock wave that blows the exit side of the skull off and most of the brain with it.
26 hours is a long time? You are young!
That's a long time to be bleeding out and having bullets lodged in you. What I was saying anyway that you managed to misinterpret is that a glancing shot, or a round passing through only a small portion of the brain is not going to necessarily kill someone. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Right you are. I knew a guy who had tried suicide by gun in the mouth but at the last bit he must have closed his jaw because the bullet ended up deflecting off his teeth. He was a real mess every time he ate, the VA never did anything to patch the ragged mess it made. Shot to the head and all, and he survived. I have a cousin who art-deco'd a wall in one 30-06 shot back in 91.
As opposed to someone with half or more of their skull gone and most of the contents as a visible mess spread outside?Doctors are not going to look at someone who has a hole in their head and assume they are already dead. "OMGZ the brain has been turned to jelly".
And you know what? There are survivors with IIRC (check the ******ss Book of World Records) 2/3 of their brains gone, some small fraction of 1% of total head shots and other head injuries.
As the saying goes, if your time ain't up then you ain't going. I've got a stubborn buddy who rides his Goldwing with no helmet because he believes that... I keep telling him that even if he doesn't die an accident can easily leave him in a state that ain't exactly living either. It takes him 3 days to a week to forget. He is my friend but I've done what I could.
Even though in the great majority of high velocity direct to the head bullets wounds the victim is dead in seconds if not virtually instant?Actually the permanent cavity is relatively small compared the transient cavity and the brain is relatively plastic and also separated into two halves. Arteries are strong and not always easily ruptured by hydrostatic shock.
Especially when they receive aid in a very short time, get to surgery quickly and are on life support practically all of that time?I'd say 26 hours is pretty long for a violent death like that, 60 seconds of bleeding out isn't very nice or exactly quick either.
I was in 6th grade in 1968 when there was a playground fist fight. The loser got punched in the side of the head and went down. He was still quadriplegic 7 years later, last I knew. I wonder how many times Billy wished he hadn't survived?
I followed the links and here's the old narrative:Originally posted by stalkervision:
white house is changing the Narrative now. Turns out Ben Ladin was unarmed.
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes...mc=politicsemailema1
Q You said that Osama bin Laden was actually involved in the firefight, and we had -- it has been reported that he reached for a weapon. Did he get his hand on a gun and did he fire himself?
MR. BRENNAN: He was engaged in a firefight with those that entered the area of the house he was in. And whether or not he got off any rounds, I quite frankly don’t know.
The victory comes when the twit behind the attacks is shown not to be able to get away with them.Originally posted by Pirschjaeger:
Personally I don't see the death of bin Laden as any sort of victory. I suppose sooner than later someone in-the-know will tally up the costs in terms of money and lives, thereby making the bigger picture more obvious.
"Justice has been done"
I'm beginning to think I have a warped sense of justice.
Edit: From 9/11 To Osama Bin Laden's Death, Congress Spent $1.28 Trillion In War On Terror
Unfortunately no mention of lives directly or indirectly sacrificed.
The 1.28 trillion and over 1 million lives lost -as a start- is more a measure of the success of the terrorists in their goals.
Remember that WWI was set off by terrorist action.
But hey, 1.28 trillion was not lost, per se. Well yeah, a fraction of it was, but majority was merely "transfered" from the public into some private pockets of oil-arms-inudstrial complex bosses. Jackpot no less!Originally posted by M_Gunz:
The 1.28 trillion and over 1 million lives lost -as a start- is more a measure of the success of the terrorists in their goals.
What a fortune these bosses have absolutely no influence on politics, since it almost seems like Bin Laden acted in their interest!![]()
I know all about hydrostatic shock.Originally posted by M_Gunz:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Aimail101:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by M_Gunz:
With hydrostatic shock the bullet doesn't have to hit a major artery. In general the brain gets jellied by the same shock wave that blows the exit side of the skull off and most of the brain with it.
26 hours is a long time? You are young!
That's a long time to be bleeding out and having bullets lodged in you. What I was saying anyway that you managed to misinterpret is that a glancing shot, or a round passing through only a small portion of the brain is not going to necessarily kill someone. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Right you are. I knew a guy who had tried suicide by gun in the mouth but at the last bit he must have closed his jaw because the bullet ended up deflecting off his teeth. He was a real mess every time he ate, the VA never did anything to patch the ragged mess it made. Shot to the head and all, and he survived. I have a cousin who art-deco'd a wall in one 30-06 shot back in 91.
As opposed to someone with half or more of their skull gone and most of the contents as a visible mess spread outside?Doctors are not going to look at someone who has a hole in their head and assume they are already dead. "OMGZ the brain has been turned to jelly".
And you know what? There are survivors with IIRC (check the ******ss Book of World Records) 2/3 of their brains gone, some small fraction of 1% of total head shots and other head injuries.
As the saying goes, if your time ain't up then you ain't going. I've got a stubborn buddy who rides his Goldwing with no helmet because he believes that... I keep telling him that even if he doesn't die an accident can easily leave him in a state that ain't exactly living either. It takes him 3 days to a week to forget. He is my friend but I've done what I could.
Even though in the great majority of high velocity direct to the head bullets wounds the victim is dead in seconds if not virtually instant?Actually the permanent cavity is relatively small compared the transient cavity and the brain is relatively plastic and also separated into two halves. Arteries are strong and not always easily ruptured by hydrostatic shock.
Especially when they receive aid in a very short time, get to surgery quickly and are on life support practically all of that time?I'd say 26 hours is pretty long for a violent death like that, 60 seconds of bleeding out isn't very nice or exactly quick either.
I was in 6th grade in 1968 when there was a playground fist fight. The loser got punched in the side of the head and went down. He was still quadriplegic 7 years later, last I knew. I wonder how many times Billy wished he hadn't survived? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
As I just posted, 75 percent are dead within seconds. I would not call that a guaranteed "instakill" like so many Call of Duty noobs think. The rest are going to either be violently spazzing out on the floor or slowly bleeding out. You don't see that in shooters do you?
My original point that I made against Bo_Nidle still stands. Technically a shot that's passed through the frontal-lobe missing any major arteries is going to render the person unconscious until hypoxia occurs. Your arguing over nothing.
Oh AIMail101 I do enjoy our occassional jousting sessions.![]()
I have actually witnessed first hand the effects of gunshots to the head, all self inflicted, so I do have a slight amount of knowledge about the subject.
I think the footage of the headshot to JFK is ample testament to the effects of a high velocity rifle round to the brain cavity. That round has a muzzle velocity around the 740 mps, The 5.56mmNATO round has a velocity listed around 850 meters per second, and the JFK shot was from a lot further away, a heck of a lot further than across a small room.
Robert Kennedy was shot with a rimfire .22 short so shock wise there is virtually no comparison.
There are always freak occurrences. Although cases of persons still being able to function with the majority of their brain matter missing seem to be restricted to Police senior officers, solicitors and students () but I firmly believe this gentleman was dead before he hit the floor.
(By the way, I think phrases like "spazzing" should be avoided. It isn't very nice).
But we digress from the subject of the thread.
Latest reports I have seen state that Mr Bin Laden was unarmed but "resisting", apparently reaching for a weapon, when he was shot. He was not using a woman as a human shield but his wife ran at the assault team (fair play to her, a ballsy move. Stupid, but ballsy) and was shot in the legs.
As predicted the UK media are starting to make a big deal of this now, with a lot of emphasis on the "unarmed" part. They REALLY do not like successful military operations to which they usually give no coverage. Their preference is for allied blunders, friendly fire, missed targets etc. (If the current generation of journalists had covered WW2, Britain would have surrenderd after Dunkirk). They have been using the phrase "arrest" quite a bit. I think someone needs to point out to them that this evil POS was not a shoplifter.
The US were absolutely right in killing him at the loaction. Imprisoning him would have undoubtedly lead to countless kidnappings/hijackings to obtain his release for decades to come.
It is argued that he is now a martyr. Well the obvious advantage of that is that a martyr cannot plan or co-ordinate anymore.
And the chances of him talking were incredibly unlikely.
Even if he was tortured, which I do not approve of and is ultimately futile as this video shows http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEHFhFfcRKA
There's rarely thing as being dead before you hit the floor, total loss of oxygenated blood to the brain and it will still work for 15 seconds. Then it will BEGIN to shut down. Its more often than not a case of being rendered unconscious instantly before hitting the floor. Then dying.
As I said studies have shown about 75 percent die "very shortly" after a ballistic head wound.
If you know what Austro-hungarian empire did on the Balkans you also get a picture why that happened? Or not? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Originally posted by Jure_502:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by M_Gunz:
Remember that WWI was set off by terrorist action.
Maybe i am wrong on this point, but as afaik the Sarajevo Killings were done by Serbians and Serbia was not a part of the Austrian Empire.