View Poll Results: I'm just now reading a book by Norbert Hannig called "Luftwaffe Fighter Ace". Yay, a book by a [B]1

Voters
17. You may not vote on this poll
  • The snapstall is not well modelled

    6 35.29%
  • The snapstall is well modelled, but not exactly "controllable"

    2 11.76%
  • The snapstall is well modelled, and can be controlled by the pilot and used in combat

    5 29.41%
  • What's a "snapstall"?

    4 23.53%
  1. #1
    Share this post

  2. #2
    Udidtoo's Avatar Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    1,749
    You forgot to add a very relaitive option i.e "If it doesn't ammount to a clear advantage on HL we'll throw our teddies out the pram until its removed"

    Sorry Stigler. I've seen so much posting recently just to take a pee on someone else' favorite ride/team/pilots/nations/politics/etc that I had to give it a try.

    I fail to grasp the appeal.
    Share this post

  3. #3
    I can try testing it Stigler. I always concentrate on staying fast in the 190 and try never to get anywhere near a stall. The tactic you describe would be the opposite of what I am trying to do it the Fw190. Even if it worked, you would loose all your speed.

    There is no more "instability" in the Fw190 roll rate. It has been slowed considerably in 4.01, to below historic levels.
    Share this post

  4. #4
    p1ngu666's Avatar Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    11,199
    not sure how controled it was, think u ended upside down very fast, doubt u could stop it where u wanted..
    Share this post

  5. #5
    Stigler_9_JG52's Avatar Banned
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    703
    @Udidtoo:
    Not sure what to make of your reply. My intention is definitely not to "pee on" the FW190. I happen to like the plane. Just wondering how its drivers feel about how it's represented in the sim. Try not to read a motive into my question: it really is "just a question" I'm posing.

    @pingu:
    I'd think, even if you couldn't control it to the extent you would, say, an 8-point roll, I would think that if you could control the timing of the snap, then turn it into a Split-S or diving max perf turn, that would qualify as "controllable". I suppose the key here would be controlling when it happened to a degree where it could be quickly used a second after you suddenly saw an La5 bearing in on you for a shot. As opposed to simply dealing with it when it reared its head (unplanned).

    My experience with this "trait" (both in IL-2 in some versions, and in other sims) is that it was an instability that had to be managed by "pre-feeding" rudder into turns, right hand turns specifically, before banking and pulling back on the stick (as opposed to smoothly coordinating all three inputs to create a nice turn). If this failed, a nice right turn could end up with me turtled on my back, inverted left. I never felt I had the expertise in a FW190 to feel I could use it as an escape maneuver, or could time it: it was something that would happen if I didn't manage the plane properly.

    And, as input to Faustnik, this didn't need to be at or even near stall speed to happen. This could be an accelerated snap that could happen any time you wanted to make a change in direction or sometimes even in attitude (e.g., going from level flight to a precise divebombing AoA, or even recovering from a boom gunnery pass into a zoom at a funky, "non-level" bank).

    As a point of comparison, this will happen in the F4Us if you horse 'em around too much without minding the throttle. The question would apply to that plane, too: is this phenomenon controllable, or something that is to be avoided and only reacted to? (I'd think in the Corsair, the answer would be that it would be something to avoid, since the tendency to result in a really nasty uncontrolled spin is greater than in a FW190)
    Share this post

  6. #6
    Udidtoo's Avatar Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    1,749
    Stig, my post was in no way meant to hint that you pee'd on anything. Rather its just a comment on the general tone of the board of late.

    Its been sliding back into a cycle where a few people can't seem to resist jumping into any topic to make sure that their agenda's are front and center. There words 'dead' flog' and 'horse'come to mind.

    I just randomly picked this topic on the spur of the moment as it was ,because from observation that's how one does it you see. The fact that my post has nothing at all to do with your topic is also, from an observational standpoint an established pattern.

    I thought that I'd try braying loud and long that "The P-38 is a lamer" or "All the blue flyers are Nazi lovers" and people would clap me on the back and tell me what a funny guy I am. Then I remembered that people who find 5 pages of that BS funny and myself would have very little in common and I certainly don't need them to stroke my ego everyday.

    So that being said I assure you I won't hijack your thread further and I'm sorry for confusing you. Hope you get the feedback you desire and good hunting.
    Share this post

  7. #7
    danjama's Avatar Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    6,405
    well ive been flying the corsair and 190 intensely as they are so **** beautiful, and i think this maneuver/tactic is moddeled pretty well. I can use the maneuver u describe in a controlled manner in both the f4u and 190, but whether it puts me at an advantage is questionable. I think in a F4u, the answer is yes, in a 190, i think it picks up speed too slowly. However, to your original question, the answer is yes. P.S. the 190 is beautiful
    Share this post

  8. #8
    Its been sliding back into a cycle where a few people can't seem to resist jumping into any topic to make sure that their agenda's are front and center. There words 'dead' flog' and 'horse'come to mind.
    Only it's not flogging a dead horse. We know from experience that 'a big push' of opinion/sentiment (and it's rarely more than that) voiced on these forums can influence the game. I won't mention specific examples.

    If Peter Snow was here with his 'swingometer', I'd wager that he'd be forecasting a shift in the next patch.

    Ta,
    Norris
    Share this post

  9. #9
    Stigler_9_JG52's Avatar Banned
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    703
    Well, if it makes you feel any better, let me go on the record as saying I have no agenda on whether Oleg makes a change to the FM in regards to this based on what the vote says. I'm interested in hearing what FW drivers think about this historical perspective on the plane's performance. This is also the sort of thing that does not get "flight tested" and graphed. It's a plane quirk.

    That's a totally separate issue from whether Oleg and his team make changes based on only hard data or based on the direction and velocity of the wind. I have my opinion on that subject, but won't go into it here.
    Share this post

  10. #10
    MEGILE's Avatar Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Posts
    5,827
    The severity of the stall has no doubt been reduced in this patch, and unrealistically so, but thats merely my opinion.
    At times you can snap, but recover immediatly, in what LS terms the fish flop.
    If Oleg changes it however, I just hope he doesn't go over board.
    Share this post