1. #11
    M_Gunz's Avatar Banned
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    From the 4.10 Guide PDF that you should be able to d/l with the patch... and never read....

    now highlighted for easy finding answers

    Structural G Limits
    Before 4.10 patch all aircraft in IL2 have a single fixed Structural G limit of +13.5G. It only
    really becomes an issue with aircraft with exceptionally light elevators such as the P-51. Pull
    more than +13.5G and you loose your wings. The real life situation is a little more
    complicated. Real aircraft are designed with an Ultimate load and In Service design load. Both
    are for a defined configuration and weight.
    In Service load is the typical G available to the pilot. As long as this the G is not exceeded then
    no aircraft damage will occur. Exceed the In service G limit then damage of varying degrees
    may occur like bent airframes etc. Exceed the Ultimate load then severe damage will occur
    typically resulting in structural failure like wings coming off etc. Typically a safety factor of 1.5
    is used. So fighter plane with a design In service G limit of say +8G will have an Ultimate load
    of +12G. As external stores and or weight is increased above the design weight, both G limits
    reduce accordingly. Reduce weight (by dropping bombs or burning fuel etc.) and your G limits
    increase. Bomber and Transport aircraft have G limits much lower than fighters.
    So if you abuse the limits you damage the aircraft. Once damaged then its structural integrity
    is reduced so the ultimate load reduces as well. In other words keep bending the airframe and
    you will eventually weaken it to the point that very little extra G is required to induce
    structural failure. A bent airframe won’t perform as well either.
    How does this work in game? You take your stock standard Fighter Mk 1 with default
    armament +100% Fuel your limits are +8G/+12G. You add 2 x 500lbs bombs. Your limits now
    reduce to 5G/8G. So prior to the target you need to be a little more careful with your plane.
    Lets say pre target you pull + 6G, you have exceeded the “in service” limit, you will hear a
    damage sound cue and suffer a slight aerodynamic penalty.
    In addition your G limits have now
    reduced to say 5G/6G. Bust these again and further aerodynamic penalties and further
    reductions will apply. You progress to the target and release your bombs. Since the weight is
    reduced your limits will increase but since you already bent the airframe you won’t get back
    your original limits. You might then get say +8G/+10G. As you can see if you keep abusing the
    limits you will end with a very weakened airframe.
    In the case of heavy bombers, G limits will prevent any real aerobatic maneuvers. You will still
    be able to evade quite well but you wont be able to BFM with plane like the A-20 anymore.
    Bombers will be just that: Bombers.
    G Indications
    When the speedbar is enabled an indication of proximity to the Service limit is provided.
    When
    you get within 25% of the current Service limit a "G" will be displayed on the top of the
    speedbar. As you get to within 10% of the current Service limit the "G" will begin to flash. The
    process being reversed as you reduce the G. No G cueing is provided if Speed bar is
    deselected.
    If players use No Cockpit View than direct readout of G is provided. Number is white while G's
    are above 0, when you get within 25% of the current Service limit number turns to red. Below
    0G,number is black.
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  2. #12
    Thanks gunz... mystery solved . Nice to know exactly what that "G" signifies too now.

    I guess when I was flying straight at 500 kph I must have just pushed my a/c way too hard earlier and so even though I was flying level the speed just knocked a wing off. All I can figure. I was still pretty surprised though...
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  3. #13
    Originally posted by IcyScythe:
    Can this reduced tolerance happen and you not get a crack? (i.e. no warning)
    Not sure, I'd say no according to the readme...

    And I'll add that I had done zero maneuvering prior to the failure. It was a simple "start-climb-cruise-break", which is why it was so odd.
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  4. #14
    M_Gunz's Avatar Banned
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    Originally posted by IcyScythe:
    Thanks gunz... mystery solved . Nice to know exactly what that "G" signifies too now.

    I guess when I was flying straight at 500 kph I must have just pushed my a/c way too hard earlier and so even though I was flying level the speed just knocked a wing off. All I can figure. I was still pretty surprised though...
    It's quite likely that a very small wobble or spike of the stick commanded a very short elevator movement that made a tiny short G-force that you wouldn't notice except for the wing coming off. I recommend to everyone, put FILTER on at least the pitch axis (elevator) of their stick in the stick sensitivities settings. You -will- fly smoother.
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  5. #15
    PF_Coastie's Avatar Senior Member
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    I had a similar experience in a P47 Late. I am wondering if this mod does not take Altitude into consideration.

    I did a qmb against two Doras and started at 7km. During the fight I made a bad pass and zoomed back up to reset for another pass (all the while still at contrail height). When I was reaching my apex at about 9km, I had to wing over to keep my eye on the Dora and my wing popped off! I was doing less than 300kph at the time. This is absolutely crazy and should NEVER happen. Only maybe if I had damage to that wing by gunfire or something(visible holes in wing). I had complete control of the fight and never even took enemy fire.
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  6. #16
    M_Gunz's Avatar Banned
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    Rolling the plane to bank, there are G forces on the wings. That first pullout must have been a lulu! But you are reading IAS in the pullout while G-force is by the TAS and here I kind of lose it... in a smooth pullout where the pilot doesn't grey out the whole thing should be 5 G's or less regardless of speed. But it takes a while to grey out and very short 'bumps' that your pilot (let alone you) wouldn't notice maybe do show up in the data and those are what the code is picking up. I wouldn't say that's wrong either. Fast onset of G's or impact is more than stable loading, it is kinetic and multiplies by speed squared.

    Still got to wonder how they formulate loading, it can only be so complex and not be a noticeable framerate hit.
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  7. #17
    PF_Coastie's Avatar Senior Member
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    I fly the jug a lot. It is my favorite plane. I have very soft settings on my MSFFB stick and rarely do hard pullouts. I recognize a "bad" AOA early and pull out early to not worry about blackouts. I rarely if ever black out in the jug because I know how to fly it. Spit is a different story, LOL, I spend more time in black out than not in that darn thing!

    I understand about TAS/IAS, but it still does not compute to me. The plane should not have been stressed in this situation.
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  8. #18
    Originally posted by M_Gunz:
    I recommend to everyone, put FILTER on at least the pitch axis (elevator) of their stick in the stick sensitivities settings. You -will- fly smoother.
    You're telling me I've been fiddling with the blankity blank input percentages all these years when all I needed was the filter! "$&@#*$&^@!!"

    Geez, Gunz, my flying's improved already. Thanks!
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  9. #19
    Rolling the plane to bank, there are G forces on the wings.
    The load becomes asymmetrical. An airframe's load factor limits are designed bearing a load in one axis only. Adding load on additional axes greatly reduces the design axis load factor.

    That is why pilot skill is so important in keeping the aircraft in co-ordinated flight during hard maneuvering. If a pilot cannot maintain co-ordinated flight, he is asymmetrically loading the airframe.
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  10. #20
    M_Gunz's Avatar Banned
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    Originally posted by PhantomKira:
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by M_Gunz:
    I recommend to everyone, put FILTER on at least the pitch axis (elevator) of their stick in the stick sensitivities settings. You -will- fly smoother.
    You're telling me I've been fiddling with the blankity blank input percentages all these years when all I needed was the filter! "$&@#*$&^@!!"

    Geez, Gunz, my flying's improved already. Thanks! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    You need both! My pitch settings are 46,52,58,64,70,76,82,88,94,100 and 50% Filter. It takes a light touch but I turn better even when not well trimmed.. still do trim though.
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