Member
Just got done with a ranked 1v1 with Lexovix, one that I stopped playing the second I saw the same strat he uses in all his replays- M16's early, then wolverines/jacksons, and then M40's to support. Rangers and willies are a given.
I spent most of the match talking to him, and his advice against his USA combo is better infantry and tank micro. What I'd love to brainstorm, with the community, is how better infantry and tank micro could possibly be used against the above described american combo. One thing we'll assume for the sake of discussion is that it's not a USA mirror, but USA vs any other nation.
An early air strat, even a heavy air push against the relatively fragile M16's would lead to teching to M19's in the hands of a skilled USA player, would it not? The M19's are the equivalent counter to any nation's fighter bombers en-mass, and some sort of recon is required for the fighter bombers to target the AA, while the M19's can fire on the air units at will.
If the enemy player goes for Armor and Infantry, the Jacksons are one of the most cost effective tank destroyers in the game, while the starting couple of m16's can easily kite and kill infantry. Not only that, but jacksons coupled with willies are a good way of removing enemy recon from the map.
One can mass ground AT, but ground AT is generally so slow, that the starting AA base can pump out either a few priests or go M40's, which invalidates the ground AT being effective, while also invalidating any kind of infantry push. The enemy can't go counter-arty against america, as all their arty is armored.
Lexovix assured me multiple times that I was too stupid to understand the fair counter to his strategy, and that it was my lack of skill that lead to his victory. I'm hoping we can all prove him correct and come up with some sort of viable counter strategy.
I know there are a lot of intangibles in the game, such as tank micro, infantry dispersion, air micro, etc. Let's assume, for the sake of argument, that the players are even in these regards.
For any other typical strategy in the game, there's a viable counter-strategy that can be, and has been, posted on the forums at one point or the other. Once again, let's prove that Lexovix is right and I'm a noob by coming up with the counter to the USA ball.
Member
One way to not lose would be to not give him the opportunity to win.
What I mean is that don't let HIM decide the rules of engagement, let him do the reacting.
For instance, take out his tank building with 2 bombers and you just bought your self a whole lot of time. Now combine those 2 bombers (light) with some anti tank units and you should be in business. Of course you will need some recons in case he decides to hide his buildings.
that would be ONE way to do it.
Member
Member
At the risk of having 3Form jump down my thought, I don't think you truely understand the strategy, Kingnebula.
I've been peddling the same thing since beta, and if there is interest I know there is a samin vs lexovix mirror match replay out there somewhere which would give some insight into the actual build order, strategy and weak points.
As Lexovix said, the strategy is 100% reactionary. The beauty of US is that, if you react and counter enough, you naturally land at an almost unbeatable AA, AT and ARTY wall.
Junior Member
Not too sure, but looking at the ruse unit viewer, would massed Laffys W15 TD count? Even through it does have paltry vehicle armor, they are $10, same range as Jacksons and require no research. You can get way more Laffys then he can Jacksons out especially with the $50 gap research Jacksons need.
Assuming the Laffys can destroy the Jacksons, the French can then use SAU40 and B1 Bis to destroy Ranger spam or towed AT Guns that would threaten the Laffys.
Member
this all assumes he doesn't use Rangers and Arty to destroy your Laffys. Btw, their 'paltry vehicle armor' works wonders against them.
Besides, france's biggest weakness is against an opponent who goes air. Believe it or not, P47's, Mustangs, and B17's are all badass units. I wouldn't hesitate a second to go with an air start against a france opponent, but that might be my noobness talking.
Member
Member
Member
i played lexo only ones, this weekend. i was italy and it was an easy win for me, i know it wont be this easy evry game. so its not that i think your a noob now:P i just played the game pretty good from my side.
but if he can get all those combo units together, its your own fault cause you made him build those together. thats the whole thing when you play a good USA player, just prevent them from building all those units together.
another thing that would help that they would just use some other USA tactics instead of this basic BO.
like, use chaffee's or airfield or maybe protobase, not evry game the same units, i would get bored very fast
Member
Yeah, those decoys got me good, been a while since i've been fooled. :-(Originally posted by Kickass.Hoppa:
i played lexo only ones, this weekend. i was italy and it was an easy win for me, i know it wont be this easy evry game. so its not that i think your a noob now:P i just played the game pretty good from my side.
but if he can get all those combo units together, its your own fault cause you made him build those together. thats the whole thing when you play a good USA player, just prevent them from building all those units together.
another thing that would help that they would just use some other USA tactics instead of this basic BO.
like, use chaffee's or airfield or maybe protobase, not evry game the same units, i would get bored very fast
Like to see you try it again though! :-p
