1. #1
    The tailgunners of any kind of a bomber appear to all be Carlos Hathcock, or some of his kin. They are all ridiculously good at their jobs.

    I feel this accuracy is wickedly over-modeled. What do you guys think?
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  2. #2
    VW-IceFire's Avatar Senior Member
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    Yes and no.

    Gunners have a propensity for firing killing shots at extreme ranges. They also tend to be able to make shots despite the G forces of the plane they are firing from.

    The first problem has gotten quite a bit better in recent patches to the point where I haven't had a sniper shot on me at all in 4.10.1. The gunners are also now affected by lighting conditions such as if you approach from the sun. The sniping shot from a tumbling bomber is still something they do sometimes... but again I haven't seen that happen recently.

    Which version are you currently playing?

    On the other hand... the people I see online who tend to complain the loudest about gunners that are too accurate are also the ones flying straight lines and attacking from the back of the bomber. This position is often called the "dead 6" position and it's not because the bomber is going to be dead... it's because you're going to be dead.

    A little deflection angle and an overhead or underhand pass are better techniques to kill bombers without being exposed to the defensive gunfire. There is a reason why the Luftwaffe did their best to set up for head on passes against bomber formations as the weight of fire was considerable less out ahead of the formation.
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  3. #3
    I go back and forth on this.

    It seems to be over-modeled as far as real life accuracy of single gunners goes, especially for gunners in two engined fighters or light bombers shooting while making wild maneuvers.

    But on the other hand it's not over-modeled to the point that I can't enjoy the game when bombers are around, I just know that I can't get lazy around them.

    Also, game limitations and mission design handicap the bombers by usually not letting them fly in huge defensive formations, high enough to make intercepts difficult like they often did during the war. It feels like the sharp-shooting gunners were added to compensate for those limitations, and I feel the overall balance turned out OK.
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  4. #4
    Ho Ho Ho, this is up there with are 50's under modelled.

    Yes in the fact that G doesn't affect ai gunners, so at the moment when there stomach is trying to come out of there mouth they can still fire as if they are standing on the ground.

    If you use the search function on this you will find hundreds of threads over the last 10 years.

    However, if the bomber is flying straight and level, and you're stupid enough to park on its 6, you deserve to get everything that will happen to you.
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  5. #5
    Fair enough.

    Can you kill the AI gunners (I mean, before the ship goes down)?

    I think I was able to fill the aft end of the Bettys I encountered with enough lead to sink a cruiser. I wonder if I was able to kill the gunners?
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  6. #6
    Gunners can be killed, but it's not easy.

    There's no point trying to aim for them, the game uses some kind of voodoo black magic type of algorithm to determine their hit bubbles.

    If you get one, just think of it as a bonus.
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  7. #7
    As someone who flies mostly bombers online ( mostly the PTO on 'Zekes vs Wildcats' ) I feel the gunner modelling is just fine the way it is

    But really though:

    Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
    ...the people I see online who tend to complain the loudest about gunners that are too accurate are also the ones flying straight lines and attacking from the back of the bomber. This position is often called the "dead 6" position and it's not because the bomber is going to be dead... it's because you're going to be dead.
    Quite right. The tail gunner has perhaps the best firing solution with minimal deflection of any position in a bomber. Granted, the nose gun position is probably more effective if you consider ballistics, but you obviously have a shorter firing window. In any case, I see so many fighters ( mostly Hellcats/Wildcats ) attack Betty's from the rear and get shot to pieces, because they don't have the patience to set up a boom & zoom attack, let alone a head-on attack...even though the latter two ( when they are employed by fliers willing to use them ) are nearly always successful in either downing or damaging the bomber enough to prevent the bomber's mission or require a pre-mature ditching in the sea on their RTB.

    Manning the guns for a dead-6 attack is almost fun, and a great way to pad my aircraft kill stats....not that I care about stuff like that.
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  8. #8
    Bearcat99's Avatar Senior Member
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    Then there is the magic one shot bb that will take out your engine .. no matter what you are flying .. a P-47 or a Mustang.. tail gunner or ground gunner...
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  9. #9
    The Bomber AI is over-modelled for the solo online player, otherwise no-one would fly them, relying on your side to cover you on the bomb-run is a no-no, unless you're in a Squad.

    However, for the offliners it's even more frustrating trying to attack a herd of Bombers.

    Shame there isn't an offline/online AI.

    And attacking Bombers was never a walk in the park.
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  10. #10
    Originally posted by Monty_Thrud:
    And attacking Bombers was never a walk in the park.
    I beg to differ.



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