1. #101
    Brain,maybe you are one calm pilot but I think aiming at the wing root is out of the question.

    That is applicable only when shooting steady targets with bigger wings such as IL2 but even when you`re shooting a steady flying fighter aiming at the wing root is too hard.

    Let alone in a DF when you`re all nervous and shaky.People ALWAYS go for the bigger part which is the main airframe.
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  2. #102
    Blutarski2004's Avatar Banned
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    Let's see if we can set a few things straight without upsetting anyone's delicate sensibilities.

    Per Roger Freeman,s "Mighty Eighth War Manual" :

    Quote -

    The 'point fifty' weighed 64 lbs (30.4 kg) and was 57 inches (1.45 m) long. Muzzle velocity was 2850 feet per second (870 m/s) and rate of fire 750 rounds per minute.

    <snip>

    These figures were USAAF specimen stated figures, there being considerable variation in battle performance through factors such as the condition of individual weapons, temperature and ammunition feed. In one test as much as 200 rounds per minute difference was recorded between guns in the same fighter. A static test carried out in March 1944 by 4th Group on a P51B with flash hider and muzzle booster attachments gave a wider variation. Without any attachments the gun fired 694 rounds per minute. With a flash hider this was reduced to 677 rpm. When the booster was fitted 857 rpm was attained but after firing 600 rounds in short bursts the rate rose to 949 rpm.

    - unquote.


    As an interesting aside, the retained velocity of the 50cal M2 AP round at approx 300 yds (+/- 2450-2475 f/s reading from the ballistic graph) was equal to the initial velocity of the MG131 round at the muzzle.
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  3. #103
    Xiolablu3's Avatar Senior Member
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    I am sure Ricochets are modelled in game, which would explain a lot of the strange pilot kills which happen.

    The other day I up-ended a P51D as I landed, so that it was stood on its nose.

    I fired the 50 cals and my plane was damaged.

    I guess it could be HE rounds, but it sounded like ricochets off the ground to me.

    Can anyone confirm why my plane was damged by me firing into the ground>?
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  4. #104
    ^^^ debris or blast

    it happened also when i landed an F4F without gear, fired guns continuously, and slowly, after nearly expending all ammunition, damage signs appeared (broken window, engine smoke)

    as the plane was nearly horizontal on the ground, no way bullets could have bouced back to me
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  5. #105
    Originally posted by Blutarski2004:
    Let's see if we can set a few things straight without upsetting anyone's delicate sensibilities.

    ...snip...

    As an interesting aside, the retained velocity of the 50cal M2 AP round at approx 300 yds (+/- 2450-2475 f/s reading from the ballistic graph) was equal to the initial velocity of the MG131 round at the muzzle.
    Sounds like an interesting trivia, but what is the time to 300 meter figure?
    Then we can make the same comparison as I did before that handles the gun as what it is, an automatic weapon.
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  6. #106
    Copperhead....you snake you..LOl j/k check your PM's
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  7. #107
    Blutarski2004's Avatar Banned
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    Originally posted by Kurfurst__:
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Blutarski2004:
    As an interesting aside, the retained velocity of the 50cal M2 AP round at approx 300 yds (+/- 2450-2475 f/s reading from the ballistic graph) was equal to the initial velocity of the MG131 round at the muzzle.
    ... what is the time to 300 meter figure?
    Then we can make the same comparison as I did before that handles the gun as what it is, an automatic weapon. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


    ..... as a rough approximation, about 0.38 seconds to 300 meters, give or take a few thousandths.
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  8. #108
    Xiolablu3's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally posted by rnzoli:
    ^^^ debris or blast

    it happened also when i landed an F4F without gear, fired guns continuously, and slowly, after nearly expending all ammunition, damage signs appeared (broken window, engine smoke)

    as the plane was nearly horizontal on the ground, no way bullets could have bouced back to me
    Hi Rnzoli

    Stanford said you are in the process of setting up a 24 player version of your COOP server, is this correct and is it going well?

    Hope so, cant wait to try it if you get it working.
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  9. #109
    F6_Ace's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally posted by Brain32:
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> There is an unknown problem with armor on the 190 too.The 190 did not have belly fueltank armor,nor did it have any stronger armor on the sides of the pilot cabine.In the game,the FW190 survives often even 20mm hits scored on those areas.
    That is not entirely correct.... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Too right it isn't.

    I posted this some time ago:

    "In Aeroplane Monthy, Sept 2004, there is a diagram showing the armour present on F and G 190 models. This shows:

    6mm armour beneath the engine
    5mm armour below the fuel tanks
    8mm armour shielding the fuel tanks from dead 6.

    There is 5mm side armour shielding the pilot."

    There wasn't a diagram showing A model armour but I bet you the F model armour isn't modelled at all.
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  10. #110
    WWMaxGunz's Avatar Senior Member
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    I'm thinking that the value of higher PE hits would be when you hit heavier structure and
    engine or guns on the target, also pass-through damage potential.

    M2 was all-purpose gun and ammo variants used by US ground, sea and air units for many
    purposes. It made logistical sense to have all use the same parts and ammo as possible.
    The longer the distance from factory to fight in terms of time, the more sense it made.

    If Kurfurst can show that MG 131 was suitable then he also shows that .50's were. What
    is the ROF advantage of 2 131's compared to 4, 6, or 8 .50's anyway? And time to 300m
    takes more than assuming muzzle velocity all the way out for both guns. That is only
    going to make a picture slanted towards the lighter bullet which, is that desired?

    I have exterior ballistic tables on civilian catridges but not much on WWII period or later
    for military besides 5.56mm used by civilian pieces. By 100 yds all rifle caliber rounds
    have their premium velocity scrubbed off and by 300 yds most are down around half muzzle
    velocity, at least for the 30 cals. The lighter bullets are the worst but more significant
    is the tip and tail shaping -- the same cartridge, same mass bullets with different shapes
    may vary greatly in velocity at ranges 50 yds and beyond.

    US 50 cal NOW I know is different profile than WWII M2 so correct charts are desired for
    any kind of ... whatever is done here. Ditto for MG 131. Data of bullet rise and drop
    from gunsight or better, drop from boresight which is available could be used but what I
    had seen on the French site (original document scans) ... well just look at the data and
    keep simple physics of falling objects in mind, perhaps it is sightline-relative or the
    lay of the barrel changed on some shots or possible transcription errors. I am still
    glad to have that data... somewhere... and that it was provided at all! Bullet drop data
    can lead to time of flight and impact energy but needs to be checked for picture consistent
    with physics and itself.
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