1. #1
    Xiolablu3's Avatar Senior Member
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    I recently got into a debate with a guy who was quoting htis order at me, I find it very difficult to believe that a blanket order went out to all LW fighter squadrons (including ME262's), that they should avoid the yak 3 at all costs.

    I explained that it was probably a general memo advising the LW pilots to avoid close-in dogfights with the yak3, as they did with the Spitfire's in 1940 - dont turn with them, use the vertical - and not a complete 'run away' order, but he is adamant.

    Does anyone have a complete translation of this supposed 'order' and any info about where it came from/who wrote it please?

    I find it so difficult to believe that orders basically came from the high command to all fighter squadrons, to 'run away' (this is basically that they are saying) from any Yak3.

    I find it much more likely that an order went out worded something like - ' Avoid turning combat with the Yak3 at low altitudes at all costs' and it is being misquoted.
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  2. #2
    I'm with you on this one Xiolablu, but I also wonder whether or not it was propaganda entirely.
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  3. #3
    The Soviets also supposedly tested Fw-190 Ds (without any boost) and concluded that it had some interesting features but was no match for either the Yak-3 or La-7. The omission of boost is very telling.

    It's often hard to seperate reality from propaganda. I think in this case it's probably a combination of deliberate exaggeration for propaganda purposes, and perhaps a Luftwaffe order to avoid situations in which success was not guaranteed i.e turn fighting with Yaks at low altitude, remember this was late war and the Luftwaffe was overstretched to a point where it could not afford to waste fighters or pilots.
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  4. #4
    VW-IceFire's Avatar Senior Member
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    Although oft repeated I don't actually believe this order was ever issued. It probably belongs in the realm of urban legend.

    Someone did dig something up about it once. I don't remember what the result was.

    I can understand the meaning to some extent and it's just was Xiola says. It's a general note to not dogfight with a Yak-3 just like the Flying Tigers were told to strictly avoid turn contests with Japanese fighters. But the Yak-3 isn't fast enough to pose total superiority over the late war German fighters. The Me262 remains in a league of it's own as well.
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  5. #5
    German high-command forced old people and 16 year-olds to fight or be executed.
    Believing they issued such an order would be schizophrenic - at least.

    EDIT: I could imagine (read: be guessing) they'd recommend attacking IL-2 and other fighter-bombers first, before going for fighters.
    That's just a feeling - maybe a misinterpretation or an urban myth alltogether.
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  6. #6
    Treetop64's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
    I find it much more likely that an order went out worded something like - ' Avoid turning combat with the Yak3 at low altitudes at all costs' and it is being misquoted.
    I agree. I've always found it extremely unlikely that the LW would be ordered to deliberately and completely avoid combat with a particular type of enemy aircraft under any circumstances, no matter how good the enemy aircraft may be. No such "order" ever came up for avoiding combat with the La-7s, and they were every bit as good - if not better - than even the Yak-3s.

    Whether or not you engage in a fight, and how you prosecute the engagement once it's decided that there will be a fight, depends on the initial relative positions of the two opposing flights. If I'm in a flight of FW190s, and I spot a flight of Yak-3s below, it's a safe bet that we'll gonna peel off and scythe through them. Then, depending on how the the Yaks react, we either pull up to come back down for one more slice before we get the hell out of there, or we get the hell out of there right now.

    Quotes, orders, or otherwise can easily get twisted and spun into something much more romantic and appealing if it suiting to do so. Much like the oft-repeated mistake of the P-47s being called the "Jug" because it's short for "Juggernaut", when in fact they were called that because they resembled milk jugs if stood on their noses (in the case of the early razorback P-47s).
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  7. #7
    LEBillfish's Avatar Senior Member
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    32:7945 Auftrag vom Generalstab, Ostoberkommando zu aller Luftwaffe steuert:
    Um die Sicherheit und die Empfindlichkeit aller Deutsch-Piloten zu versichern, sind sie von im Luftkampf mit weiblichen sowjetischen Piloten, besonders die besonders online sich engagieren Fliegen Yak ......, gegen Knochenhecht verboten.

    ????? 32:7945 ?? ???????????? ?????, ????????? ?????? ???????????? ? ???? ??????-????????? ????? ??????????:
    ??? ??????????? ???????????? ? ??????????????????? ???? ??????? ?????, ??? ????????? ?? ???????? ? ??? ??????? ? ???????? ?????????? ????????, ? ????????? ???? ??? ??????? ...... ???? ?????????? ??-????, ?????? ????-???.

    32:7945 Order from General Staff, Eastern High Command to all Airforce pilots:
    To Insure the safety and survivability of all German Pilots, they are forbidden from engaging in air combat with female Soviet pilots, particularly those flying Yaks......Most especially online, against Bill-fish.

    ....okay, that may all be a lie, yet I really rawk in a Yak1b

    K2
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  8. #8
    JtD's Avatar Senior Member
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    If you only go as far as wiki, the order was to avoid combat against Yak without oil cooler at altitudes below 5000m.

    Which from my point of view is a tactically absolutely valid recommendation. In fact when flying online I try to completely avoid combat, and am looking to just shoot others down.
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  9. #9
    Treetop64's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally posted by LEBillfish:
    ....okay, that may all be a lie, yet I really rawk in a Yak1b

    K2
    Easy to see. The Yak-1B is a brilliant airplane, as long as you can shoot straight.

    The Yak-B is arguably the most underrated and underused plane in the game, though some might complain that it's no good because it doesn't throw boulders and anvils at it's target.
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  10. #10
    The Jak-1b is practically uber - it can hold its own with planes up to 1944.

    If you only go as far as wiki, the order was to avoid combat against Yak without oil cooler at altitudes below 5000m.
    Maybe such an order was given, but it's doubtful given that an oil cooler, or lack thereof would be nearly impossible to spot in an engagement.
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