1. #1
    what i want to know is wonder why the 50 cal in PF is weak? i mean the US used insindiary bullets. i dont know if they used armor piercing bullets. but none the less i think that the american fighters are seriously handicapped. i mean basically it's like 6 50's are equal to one 20mm cannon. i dont get it. can somebody please shine some light on this. also i was just wondering if the p-40 in the game (E and M's) used a truss type of construction, because it seems like they skin is just weak like butter. i nicknamed the thing butter wings for god sake. well just wondering what you guys know.
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  2. #2
    berg417448's Avatar Senior Member
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    Aug 2004
    You might try doing a forum search for other threads. This subject has been discussed many times before.
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  3. #3
    I will say this quickly here. If you know how to use them they are deadly.
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  4. #4
    MEGILE's Avatar Senior Member
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    Nov 2002
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  5. #5
    VW-IceFire's Avatar Senior Member
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    Feb 2003
    You might want to do a search for topics relating to the .50cal. Its a hot button issue.

    Most people who try and use the .50cal for the first few times have completely wrong convergence values which hurts this weapon over most others. If you set convergence properly and according to your fighting style then the .50cal can quite easily take apart enemy aircraft. Most of the .50cal armed aircraft have them in the wings...the idea is you want all of the wing guns to hit one point at a given range (thats the convergence). So if its 250m then at 250m all of the bullets from all 6 guns hit the same spot. If you're hitting a target at 250m but your convergence is at 500m (which is a much less effective range) then you're not getting a concentrated burst. Depending on the plane...maybe you're hitting the outside of both wings and not the important stuff like fuel tanks and engines in the middle.

    My ideal convergence for machine guns is 250m. At that range, with a 6 gun .50cal arrangement, you can take a FW190 apart in 2-3 second burst. Sustained hits on the same location are usually best for obtaining results. If you're a spray and pray shooter and you tend to only land glancing blows then the bigger weapons are better as you can hope for a critical one hit kill. With the .50cal you need to poor rounds into the enemy like the real pilots did...it doesn't take many but some good shooting is required to take the enemy down quickly.

    Also keep in mind that cannons specialize in material destruction so they take wings off or tail sections or blow engines to bits. Heavy machine guns tend to be focused more on killing the innards. So a few seconds and the enemy plane is basically done for and won't be able to fight or do much of anything but the plane is still basically intact.
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  6. #6
    I agree with you on P-40 airframe is too weak in Il-2 , especially its engine .

    For the .50 cal , i think they are about ok now , well offline , i use 150 meters convergence , and it works pretty well offline , online it works too , but less effectively because of lag/packet loss , but still works fine .

    Disadvantage of short convergence is that you can't shoot very far and make high and distant deflections (and not handy for head-ons ) like if you had 300 or 500m convergence , but it's clearly more effective at short range , you can often slice a wing or set the a/c in flames with 130/150 meters convergence on a Mustang , P-40 or Jug on your first pass .

    IMHO and according to many videos i saw , .50cal should be a tad more effective in air combat , but i think that what we have now is much better than what we used to have before PF and quite close to reality .
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  7. #7
    ElAurens's Avatar Senior Member
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    Dec 2001
    I second (or third) the comments about the P40's relative structural weakness in this series.

    Real P40s were quite robust, and very fast in the dive. Our in game P40 is sort of robust and not all that fast in the dive.

    Still my favorite aircraft overall however.
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  8. #8
    Indeed , quite a few veteran accounts also confirm this , the P-40 could take some severe punishment , it saved many lives , while in the game , it's quite a fragile aircraft sadly .

    But before they "fixed" the Mg-151 , don't remember which patch , P-40 was still tough structurally ( except the engine ) ,but since then , it kinda slightly unbalanced the DM ingame , planes like Sturmovik or P-40 are more vulnerable and farther from their reputation of tough a/c , same for B-17 whom are brought down too easily with 20mil IMHO , but i think the Mg151 was too weak in the past to be honest , and after all it's a sim , they can't model perfectly all these complex stuffs , well just my humble opinion .
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  9. #9
    Xiolablu3's Avatar Senior Member
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    Jan 2003
    The 50 cal is very good in current IL2/PF,

    Its never going to be as powerful as 20mm cannon, or anything like the 30mm cannon, and you must get much closer, make sure you are shooting at around 200metres or less, thats 0.2 range.

    Watch guncam footage of the 50 cals which has not been chosen especially for dramatic effect. The rare colour guncam footage is good for this, as it shows a 'typical' 50 cal attack rather than the explosive clips chosen for TV.

    FOr example see how much damage there is in these clips and compare how close he is and how much damage is done versus the game. In my opinon, the game 50 cals are even stronger.

    Se how many hits this 109 takes (I am sure its the same one, as it has the glycol leak it gets in the first attack all the way through each clip) from different P47's, yet he still comes in to land :-


    Ju88 attack from 50-100metres looks just like the game :-


    Single FW190 takes a LOT of hits :-


    These were the first 50 cal clips I found after searching the net for p47 and p51 guncam, and are typical examples.

    Japanese footage involves much more flames and explosions, thx to their planes lack of armour and self sealing fuel tanks..

    Japanese Guncam footage, very much like the game :-


    The 50 cals are devastating versus Japanese planes in the game too. German planes are more heavily armoured tho. Keep practising, and set your convergeance for you preffered distance.

    What version of the game are you using?
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  10. #10
    you all make valid points. but, what i want to know is, if the game uses insindiary's or not. it wouldnt surprise if it did. because i've fought the japanese offline and those suckers just light up. but im wondering if thats the aircraft, like it was programed that way or if it's the bullets. because i've fought other aircraft online like the 109 and spit. and those rarely catch fire. the most damage i inflict is and black, smokey engine. which isnt bad, just guys usually steal the kill.
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