Senior Member
Senior Member
Stubborn git.Originally posted by magregory63:
Thank you for your explanation of how to play the game and work around this BUG.
The design specs for the boats and SH4 do not match and this is an issue that has always been a problem with all the SH series.
I do understand it is a game and not a sim, but it is disappointing none the less.
regards, MarkYou haven't read any of the other posts, IT IS NOT A BUG!!! Please post the specs that do not match as Lane asked as well.
Junior Member
It is a BUG.
Japan is 2250 miles from Midway.
Return trip to Japan from Midway is about 4500 miles.
From specifications: 12,000 nm on the surface at 10 knots
Yet at standard speed it runs out of fuel after about 4000 miles.
I would be interested to see a spec that shows what the actual range was at standard. I would imagine that running 5 knots faster is not going to reduce range by 6000 miles.
I still think the implementation of speed versus range is a BUG.
regards
Mark
Senior Member
Note to AVGWarhawk: thanks for the explanation. but upon reading about it and all, I need to point out that once you dive --and still having fuel or not in your ballast tanks-- it would leave a trail of fuel on the water because once you surfaced, oil-soaked water is expelled either way normally or through leaks.
Meaning that:
A submarine attacking a enemy's fleet faced patrolling aircraft. They could appear even when the submarine was not inviting attention during attacks. For example, pilots might always spot a periscope's feather, hense the intense prewar interest in attacks based on sound alone. Pilots could easily spot a submarine's oil slicks. Although a submarine could extend her range by storing fuel in the main ballast tanks, leaky tanks unfortunately left an oil slick. Even after the oil had been exhausted, it left a film on the inside of the tank that produced a new slick every time seawater ran out of the tank. Oil was caught in pockets, and it stuck to the tank sides and to the inside of the superstructure. Oil attacked the preservative with which fuel ballast tanks were painted to form a mixture that gummed up fuel lines. Dual purpose tanks were eliminated in the FY 36 submarines. In 1935, however, Subron (Submarine Squadron) 6 had reported that oil slicks could be avoided by repeatedly filling and blowing while on the surface. Dual tankage was too attractive to be foregone; it was restored in later classes. [read the above excerpts.]
Good show KFM. To avoid all of the possible oil slicks, this tank was used first in transit. Skippers were well aware of the oil slicks leading to their boats. USS Rasher was one of them. They also experienced a subchaser that would not go away no matter what they did. There was a tiny air leak that was trailing the boat thus allowing the subchaser to follow the boat. Next time I see Tim Calvert at the USS Torsk, I will inquire to the fuel storage in the trim/ballast tanks. Being he was an engineman on a sister ship to the Torsk, I will get it from the horses mouth. I will see him in one week. I will also ask Geezer Chief who served on the boats as well. Stand by
Senior Member
mag...
Sorta lost me on your first and second points....it is 2250 this way and 4500 that way?
(not being a dummy...just really don't understand that part of your post)
So specifications is 12,000NM at 10 knots. How is that different then what you get in the game?
It delivers 12,000NM give or take based on conditions at 10 knots.
I too would be interested in that spec that details range at various speeds. I've never come across any. Just the single published figures of x range at y speed.
That is why I was asking.....If you had the specs then I would love to see them. We all would then have the definative source for this fuel question. As it is we have one spec.....range x and y speed. The game delivers that.
Member
OK, here's how I do it and this I learned from our friend dgrayson.
Set speed at 10, run for 10 min game time with batteries being charged. Hit "shift g" it will show you the nm you can travel at that speed, now turn off battery charging and still at speed set at 10 run for 10 min and hit shift g again...notice the difference??
I don't recharge my batteries after they get 90-95%...if you're running at TC watch the meter then turn charging off. Easy.
Senior Member
As for the fuel in the ballast tanks, some skippers would flush these tanks once they were dry. They would change thier direction, say, to the north. They would fill the tanks with water, to flush the fuel, leaving a slick in a North-South direction. Once done, they would change course, so that way enemy patrols would be confused.
Junior Member
I'm a noob (and already quite addicted in 3 days) and came across this topic last night. I had tried running a war patrol mission and couldnt figure out why I didn't have enough fuel. Once I saw this post it made a lot more sense. I guess I was expecting a much simpler fuel model in the game. I like what they have. I work on commercial aircraft flight simulators and the engine model's fuel usage on those have to take the same things into account(speed, electrical usage, air pressurization).
Now, since I am an engineer, I did some experimenting. I drove out of port at Pearl and headed SSW in a Porpoise, stratight line (except at 1/3, I had to turn to avoid some islands and antarctica). I drove until I saw the fuel meter hit half (not when the game reported it). 1/2 range is my results, Full range is predicted.
Here are the results I come up with at various speeds:
(Ranges in nm, Speed in kts)
Eng_____Avg_____1/2_______Full
Speed___Speed___Range_____Range
---------------------------------
1/3______7.53___8338.4___16676.8
2/3_____10.79___6041.8___12083.6
Std_____14.70___3119.9____6239.8
Full____17.07___2283.1____4566.2
Flank___19.83___2189.3____4378.6
I didn't do the test with battery charging, as it gets too complex to deplete the battery all the time and I want to spend *some* time killing bad guys. I did figure out that the battery wil give you about a 45 nm range at 1/3 power and 34 nm at flank. This is a little misleading, though - I also discovered a possible additional bug: my boat never stopped moving when I depleted the batteries. Sure, the bats technically will keep the screws spinning when they have low voltage, but eventually friction will stop them. I actually ran out of air before I ran out of speed (I was moving very, very slowly (1000 yd/hr), but still moving). Tried this a couple times and it kept happening. New bug to talk about?
As to fuel conservation strategies, I like the idea of driving out to station at 1/3 power (Midway to tokyo in 15 days @1/3 instead of 11 days @2/3), then sitting around under no power - let them come to you... if you position yourself on a good shipping lane you can get alot - and it's not as though they send patrols after you. And that way you'll have plenty of fuel for chasing and picking up later missions.
Member
The weather is a major factor that no-one who wants to believe in the `bug` theory seems to mention. I wonder why?
Quite obviously the reason the fuel ran out on the trip back to Midway was that the weather was ****, sea states terrible, headwinds and currents against you - and therefore average speed for a given engine setting much less, with the obvious effect on range and consumption...
In those situations it is better to eke out the range submerged and run at only 1/3 speed to maintain steerage, even alter course to lessen the impact of the weather and hope that it blows itself out. Some storms in the Pacific can last for weeks...
The weather model is actually reasonably sophisticated in SH4, and most certainly has an impact on fuel consumption, average speeds and range and explains EVERYTHING about the `bug`.
Member
The one thing I didnt see mentioned here by our topic starter was if he had any battle dammage on his boat. If his boat was dammaged that may account for his poor MPG on the trip home. Also he keeps saying he is running at 1/3 or 2/3 and std. He may want to use the second speed scale on the telegraph that shows the speed in Kts and set it to 10 Kts as opposed to 2/3 and turn off battery recharging. It will make for a longer trip home sitting in hostile waters at a dead stop during daylight hours and then running at 10Kts during the night only, but I bet he gets home.
I also do see his point! 25% fuel to get to station and then not getting back with 67% something is up with that (battle dammage??)
