Banned
Very, very true!Actually, if someone would come up with a patch to allow the use of the engines in steering as was practice in real life, these things would turn like a sports car.
I mean you put the rudder hard over, all back on one engine, all ahead on the other, you could turn one of these babies and cut the turning radius in half.
....And also let's not get caught up with comparing apples to peas! To compare a TypeVII to a Gato would be like comparing a Mini to a Hummer.
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Senior Member
The US subs are bigger coz they had to travel longer distances (and have ice-cream machines installed), than the U-boats. Naturally this has its downsides wrt manouverability and dive times. One just has to make sure you do not use the same tactics as in a U-Boat. If you notice in SH3 the U-Boats that travelled longer distances were also 'bigger' than the previous versions
Senior Member
Member
Actually, they're growing on me; even though when I crash dive there's enough time to nip to the kitchen, make a cup of tea and get back before she finally goes under!Originally posted by K_Freddie:
The US subs are bigger coz they had to travel longer distances (and have ice-cream machines installed
Just had the most varied, exciting and successful patrol so I'm getting quite fond of the old tub now. Don't think I'll swap her when I get the chance. Better the devil you know. This really is a good, good game.
I've got a couple of questions to which I'd be grateful for any info:
1) What was the real life normal long distance cruise speed of these subs? How accurate is SH4 in this respect because at anything much above 8 knots there's rarely enough fuel to finish a patrol.
2) Did the American submariners really have such
awful haircuts? I know style has never been a word generally understood or practised the other side of the pond but, heavens above!
Banned
See! ...The "Creature Comforts" do matter!Actually, they're growing on me; even though when I crash dive there's enough time to nip to the kitchen, make a cup of tea and get back before she finally goes under!
RE: The range question:
Most of the time the max range of the U.S. boats was expressed in NM at 10 knots.
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Senior Member
It might be difficult to compare the boats, what with national pride, different objectives, different enemies and the like, but I will take the US boats for the following reasons:
1. 3 watch sections, the crew is better rested and their overall endurance/efficiency is better
2. Most boats had freezers/refrigerators so the food was better, longer (see above)
3. Their were showers on board. Not a daily occurance for all hands like the nucs, but welcomed none the less
4. Usually faster on the surface, and generally had a better range
5. Better sensors sooner (air and surface radar)
6. Bigger torpedo battery, and all reloads are inside so you can load them without coming to the surface.
7. Air Conditioning, mainly to keep the electronics dry, but I'm sure the crew liked it (back to number 1)
8. Four engines so you could run fairly quickly on the surface and still charge the batteries
9. I know that these don't all fit the early model boats in the game, but once serious war production started this was a typical boat
Yes the German boats could dive deeper, but once you get below the thermals how much does that really matter? If they can't find me at 400 feet why bother to go to 600 feet?
Don't confuse poor or inaccurate game features with the real world.
Member
Thanks for the info an I'm sure you are right. The better conditions for the crew must have been a major benefit for the overall efficiency of the boat.Originally posted by vietvettwo:
It might be difficult to compare the boats, what with national pride, different objectives, different enemies and the like, but I will take the US boats for the following reasons:
1. 3 watch sections, the crew is better rested and their overall endurance/efficiency is better
2. Most boats had freezers/refrigerators so the food was better, longer (see above)
3. Their were showers on board. Not a daily occurance for all hands like the nucs, but welcomed none the less
4. Usually faster on the surface, and generally had a better range
5. Better sensors sooner (air and surface radar)
6. Bigger torpedo battery, and all reloads are inside so you can load them without coming to the surface.
7. Air Conditioning, mainly to keep the electronics dry, but I'm sure the crew liked it (back to number 1)
8. Four engines so you could run fairly quickly on the surface and still charge the batteries
9. I know that these don't all fit the early model boats in the game, but once serious war production started this was a typical boat
Yes the German boats could dive deeper, but once you get below the thermals how much does that really matter? If they can't find me at 400 feet why bother to go to 600 feet?
Don't confuse poor or inaccurate game features with the real world.
However, surely depth did matter. For instance I understood that for the greater part of the war depth charges (British) were manufactured to a maximum depth rating and that the German Subs could actually go deeper than the depth charges could, and so were immune if they could get down fast enough?
Senior Member
Very interesting, I didnt know that !Originally posted by jlf1961:
Actually, if someone would come up with a patch to allow the use of the engines in steering as was practice in real life, these things would turn like a sports car.
I mean you put the rudder hard over, all back on one engine, all ahead on the other, you could turn one of these babies and cut the turning radius in half.
I suppose, bit like how a tank can turn on its axis...
..yup..good one !
Member
Very interesting, I didnt know that !Originally posted by RedTerex:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by jlf1961:
Actually, if someone would come up with a patch to allow the use of the engines in steering as was practice in real life, these things would turn like a sports car.
I mean you put the rudder hard over, all back on one engine, all ahead on the other, you could turn one of these babies and cut the turning radius in half.
I suppose, bit like how a tank can turn on its axis...
..yup..good one ! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Then you never played 'Enigma Rising Tide'Because you could alternatively use both engines on the ships as well as the subs to turn on the spot.
Member
Well, as others have said, American fleet boats tended to have much better sensors, better living conditions, more torpedoes, and heavier deck guns than the German Type VII.
According to the reading I've done, the Type VII had a range of about 6000-7000 miles in their typical form at 10 knots. The submarine tender and minelaying conversions did have significantly improved range. The Gato/Balao had a range of over 11,000, and carried about 10 more torpedoes.
