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Banned
Welcome to the 16 pixel pipeline video card club Coastie! As far as I'm concerned, the 800XL is the all around value deal, easpecially in this situation where he wants to avoid a power supply upgrade. I don't know who told him the nVidia card would take less power because they are noted for being even more power hungry than the 800XT cards. Also, at this point, you are exactly right. It is not an issue about frames per second anymore. It is about going to higher eye candy settings without messing up your frame rates. The reviews you see out there are not reflecting the higher AA and AF settings that you will want to use and the ATI cards simply beat the nVidia's in all around frame rates at the high eye candy settings, which is the point by the way!
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Member
Thanks for the discussion, guys. A couple of issues I need to clarify for my own comfort level, if for no other reason:
1. It was stated earlier in this thread that the 6800GT is nominally a 12 pipe card. Everything I've seen shows the GT as a full 16 pipe card, out of the box; the "vanilla" 6800 (not GT or Ultra) is, in fact, a 12 pipe card, though I understand some have had success in flashing to enable the remaining 4.
2. Yes, I'd like to get a few more fps in FB/AEP/PF, but also aim to increase eye candy in this as well as other games (I'm also into WW2 historic shooters...probably to even a greater extent than flight sims) and it seems logical that 16 pipes would be preferable to 12.
3. My comment relative to the 6800GT being run successfully on the Dell 250w PSU was simply stating that there are numerous documented cases of members of the Dell forum using the 6800GT on the Dell stock 250 psu with no problems; in fact, I don't recall seeing a single post stating otherwise. Now, if it is true that the GT uses *more* power than the XT, as LB states, then so much the better for me if I buy the XT...no?
Again, thanks to each of you. I know just enough about these infernal machines to get in trouble, and the reason for this thread is to hopefully get some expert advice on how to stay *out* of trouble! Your comments and suggestions are much appreciated. I will consider the X800XL, but I'm still inlclined to go with either the 6800Gt or the X800XT. I did not mention before, but ATi is currently offering a $50 rebate on the AIW version of this card, which is what brought it to my attention in the first place. Current Egg price is $338 shipped and,again, this is the AIW version.
~Eddie
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Banned
3. My comment relative to the 6800GT being run successfully on the Dell 250w PSU was simply stating that there are numerous documented cases of members of the Dell forum using the 6800GT on the Dell stock 250 psu with no problems; in fact, I don't recall seeing a single post stating otherwise. Now, if it is true that the GT uses *more* power than the XT, as LB states, then so much the better for me if I buy the XT...no?
I love testimonials! They are volumous and useless! I know this sounds cruel, but it's true. So some egg head got lucky ans so did his friend... really, did they really or are they looking for external validation? Do they think they have the eye candy cranked up when they forgot to uncheck application preferrence? And most importantly... are they cursed with the desire for serious flight sim games? Oh, they are able to play "their games" just fine so it must be the buggy code and we all know how bad those nasty Ruskies are about math, especially hen you compare them to our U.S. counterparts!... it couldn't be because a serious flight sim game stresses all ends of the computer at once?... No, it's a Commie conspriacy because my Frozen Throne game... Why do people play a game based on a iced up toilette?... it runs just fine... 
Ok, sorry, I went off the deep end again (geeze Lucky, we know you care, but about what we have no idea!) so where was I?... Oh yeah, so you add up all these fun and exciting testimonials and what does it amount to in a flight sim game?... you guessed it, nothing! Sorry, I could tell you an easier to digest lie, but there it is.
Look, eddieDude... sorry, but after all, you do play on a Dell... uhm, hey Luckyboy, didn't you just recently do the same?...
and beyond that, speak with my lawyer!
Ok, where was I again?... so the testimonials are useless. The reviews don't want to say anything bad about either nVidia or ATI for fear of not getting more cards loaned to them for review... I stink www.hardocp.com resembles that remark!... so what's a girl to do with a choice of so many dance partners?...
In order to answer your question, I gotta kn ow why you've come here. Is it for external validation? It's cool, many do so and I won't look down on you if that's what you want. Just let me know what idea you want me to stamp with your money and time an d game enjoyment and I can start rabbitting out the lies needed to give you the courage to do what you're going to do regardless.
If not and you really, really wanna know what to do, you've got a choice here...
1) Slide the 800XL in the machine
or
2) Upgrade your CPU, hopefully your chipset will support a 3.06 GHz Pentium IV with a 533 MHz front side buss and hopefully your RAM is fast enough to keep up with any bump in the front side buss speed if applicable. For frames per second, you get the more capable CPU. For less stutter, you get the majic Gig of RAM in two, 512 MB sticks. For more eye candy without losing so many frames per second, get a better video card up to the point where your CPU and RAM can push it and no more because it's mostly wasted money. However, you get away from the 800 XL and you're going to need a stout power supply, especially for the nVidia cards.
Can you unlock some pipes? Maybe, I dunnow, but there's reasons why the pipes are shut. The particular parts for the card in question couldn't clock out fast enough to be an Ultra card... speaking of space heaters and friend to the power company, but an excellent card until you engage eye candy and you get to both kiss your frames per second goobye and for very little image quality improvement.
Either way the Audigy 2 is still a great upgrade option.
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Member
Lucky,
Thanks for taking the time to respond so thoroughly to my questions. I guess I am looking for validation, as you say, of the ability to run one of the faster cards, but I'm not fishing around to find a lone voice in the wilderness who says "buy it...it'll work!". I do trust the experience of the Dell forum users, and if a significant number of them state using the 6800GT successfully, I am confident that my experience would be no different. I'm not discounting your position, however, and appreciate your analysis. The reason I'm still participating in this discussion (which I started, after all!) is that I'm still not decided upon which path to take. I'd love to be able to spring for upgrades on psu, processor, vidcard, and sound card, but that ain't in the cards (pun intended) at present and I'm not sure it would make sense to spend that kind of dough on all those upgrades, vs. just squirreling it away toward a new system "someday".
Were it not for the Egg messing with (what's left of) my mind, I would probably have gone ahead and clicked the "BUY NOW" button beside my choice of 6800GT and been done with it. But, with the XT/AIW at only a few shekels more, I got to thinking, which in my case, where computer hardware is concerned, is not a good thing (, Martha).
Anyhow, again, I appreciate the "food for thought". I'll give it serious consideration.
~Eddie
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Senior Member
The only 6800GT that comes out of the box with all 16 pipes enabled is the one from LeadTek. The reason I know this is because another m8 was inquiring about how many pipes are enabled on the 6800GT, thinking that the answer was 16. But after my post stating the 6800GT normally comes out of the box with 12 pipes, he did the research and came back and posted that only the LeadTek 6800GT is released with all 16 pipes enabled. This is the only 6800GT I know of that actually comes from the factory like this. I may be wrong. You should research that one yourself to make sure.
From what I have read on the oc forums and Xtreme System forums, the Nvidia line of cards do not flash as easily to open up the 4 dormant pipes. Besides, even if you can sucessfully do so, why take a chance on one of the extra 4 pipes having problems. If 16 pipes is what you want, and it should be, then just get a card that comes from the factory this way. Then you don't have to void your warranty by trying to flash and enable them.
ATI or Nvidia? Both are capable cards for sure. I've ran both, and I chose the X800 series. Why? Because eye candy and high fr's are important to me, and I can have both with the X800. I couldn't run the 6800GT at those settings, 6X AA & 16X AF, and get the fr's that the X800 series cards gives. Plus, I wasn't really pleased with the overall graphic quality of the Nvidia card. But hey, to each his own.
There are many m8's here that swear by the 6800 series of cards. And who am I to knock any of them for their opinion(s)? I guess it boils down to personal taste. You could do what I did. Buy one card or the other, try it out, then re-sell it and purchase the other one. I didn't purchase retail because I would have lost $$$ re-selling. I found used 6800's and X800's at a price where I knew I could at least get my $$$ back. I know this sounds a bit extreme, but I was in the "had to know" mode with all the hype that was created around both cards.
All I can share with you is my personal experience(s). I can run at 6X AA & 16X AF in Perfect Landscape and get decent fr's. If these things are important to you, then I know without a doubt that the X800 series of cards can do that. If any other setting besides Perfect Landscape is what you want to use, then I believe either card will do wonderfully.
I am not knocking the Nvidia line down here, just sharing what I have experienced with you. There are m8's here that claim they can get those eye candy settings and in Perfect Landscape and keep decent fr's out of the 6800 series of cards, and they may very well be able to. All I know is that I couldn't.
Could it boil down to Quazi doesn't know what he is doing? Nah. Been doing this for too long now. I'm not saying I am the sharpest knife in the drawer, but I know I'm not the dullest. HEHEHE
Oh yea, the Audigy 2 upgrade would be well worth it.
And like I said earlier, the 6800GT and the X800 series of cards will run on your current psu, but, there is always a chance that you will loose it and it may very well take some other hardware components with it. Then again, you may never have that problem.
I know LB and I have been trying to discuss this with you pretty much near all day. Maybe some other of these m8's will drop in and give you their points of view to your decision(s). You know what ours are. Good Luck!
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Member
Thanks, Quazi; I appreciate your time and that of LuckyBoy.
~Eddie
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Banned
Ok, let's see... I'm not so young anymore...
Cool Dude! Go for it! Those guys who build their own systems and overclock and have real life experience with both cards don't count! I mean, get "jiggy with it" Dude because who you gonna believe... those clowns or some people who have never put their PC's under the stress of a serious flight sim game and reviewers who are indentured to the manufacturers?
So yeah, you can take some of that money you saved by not getting the power supply and buy cool colored cables and lights and fans. I mean, like it will look like a mini-rave in that cramped mid-sized tower with poor ventilation. Yeah man, it's at the right price (I'm not paying for it, so why should I care) and you know what's gonna be really, and I mean really the best part about this? Yeah, you will be the envy of your friends who's Daddy is 3 times richer than yours for like 10 whole seconds before they regain their composure and realize they have Mommy's credit card in their wallet!
Go for it Dude!
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Banned
I hate to do this but i must say between the 6800GT and the x800xt i must tell you to buy the XT if you can find it for around the same price as the GT...
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Senior Member
Just a FYI for those on the fence about a GT or XT over $
right now until May 31 we are selling the X800XT AIW @389.99 plus ATI has a $50 mailin rebate so that makes the card 339.99....and equal to GT prices.
https://magnum-pc.securewebsiteserve...07f6dccb1345bc
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Banned
And remember, everybody around here knows I'm big about NOT going fanboy this way or that and simply use what is best at that particular time. So it's not a matter of my being an nVidia fanboy or an ATI fanboy. Once upon a time nVidia produced the ti series of cards which are still quite respectable cards by the way. When ATI came out with the 9500 card, they jumped ahead. Now they are closer, but in the end, it still, in most cases is ATI as your choice.
nVidia comes out with a better card than ATI?... you betcha, I'll drop ATI like a bad smell!
I guess what this long winded thing is trying to say to you is that I never suggest spending money for nothing. My experience... and some of it was heartache due to a 400 watt Antec failing me and taking out the mommaboard, 800XT and oddly enough, just one stick of RAM... why not the other?... to this day I do not know why!
The power supply I suggested is actually set up for the newer style motherboards, but is backwards adaptable and compatible.