1. #1
    When dog-fighting, I found that an untrimmed fighter is very hard to hold in place to effect an accurate gun-shot --- it's either nose-heavy or tail-heavy, just at the moment when a shot needs to be made. This is very unlike an advanced jet like the F-16. And worse, I read from the manual "In Pursuit" that says a shot is best fired with a moment of unloaded flight to avoid imposing unnecessary g-load. But this would result in an immediate drift away from a perfectly framed shot due to untrimmed condition. And because elevator trim takes seconds to stabilize, attempts to trim during dogfight is totally impossible.

    It can be rather frustrating when I kept missing my shots even after much practice, even when sometimes the bogie is right in front of my gunsight. And yet when I go online, I come across folks who seeming are such sharp-shooters that they can hit anything from miles away.

    I've read about deflection shooting, convergence, target sizing, applying them all, but still can't get consistent good shots. I'm using Saitek X52, of which the stick is very sensitive and the spring very light to touch. Is that the reason, or it's just me needing more steady hand?
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  2. #2
    stathem's Avatar Senior Member
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    I too find the X-52 very light on the spring, but there is a thread here about tigthing it up up (whcih I am going to try tonight AAMOF, having found the perfect thing at work)

    Have you tried mapping the guns to a button on the throttle?. That helped me avoid twiching the stick at the vital moment - a bugbear with me since I started flying.

    As for trimming - elevator wise I use that continuosly and naturally during a fight to load or unload the stick, but that's just practise and instinct. Rudder usually goes to pot but I have high hopes for a set of pedals that i'm sweating on.

    btw I'm a rubbish shot, so not quite sure why I'm giving you advice.
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  3. #3
    Chuck_Older's Avatar Banned
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    Originally posted by Superio83:
    When dog-fighting, I found that an untrimmed fighter is very hard to hold in place to effect an accurate gun-shot --- it's either nose-heavy or tail-heavy, just at the moment when a shot needs to be made. This is very unlike an advanced jet like the F-16. And worse, I read from the manual "In Pursuit" that says a shot is best fired with a moment of unloaded flight to avoid imposing unnecessary g-load. But this would result in an immediate drift away from a perfectly framed shot due to untrimmed condition. And because elevator trim takes seconds to stabilize, attempts to trim during dogfight is totally impossible.

    It can be rather frustrating when I kept missing my shots even after much practice, even when sometimes the bogie is right in front of my gunsight. And yet when I go online, I come across folks who seeming are such sharp-shooters that they can hit anything from miles away.

    I've read about deflection shooting, convergence, target sizing, applying them all, but still can't get consistent good shots. I'm using Saitek X52, of which the stick is very sensitive and the spring very light to touch. Is that the reason, or it's just me needing more steady hand?
    Well, you're mentioning trim, but only one axis is giving you trouble?

    The pitch is what's giving you headaches, you feel...this is why you mention tail or nose heavy, correct?

    Well what about roll, and yaw??

    Pay attention to your turn and bank indicator, or your "needle and ball"

    It seems to me that you're overlooking the fact that your plane is probably skidding. being trimmed in pitch is great, but being trimmed in roll and yaw will effect your gunnery too

    That doesn't mean you constantly give precise trim inputs every nanosecond. It means practice being smoother with your controls

    You might also find that you need some filtering, deadband, and input adjustments for your stick. This can be done in-game
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  4. #4
    Jaws2002's Avatar Senior Member
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    There can be so many things that afect your acuracy: controls too sensitive, some planes are more unstable then others, could be wind, damage to the airframe. Some aircraft require a great deal of triming in combat.
    A huge factor is experience. Experience with the game, with the plane and experience with the guns. I think is a good idea to find a plane you like and stick with it. After some time you'll be much better in that type then all others.
    There are a lot of people out there that fly this game for four years and more. If you think about it is like the german aces that fought all the war and survived. They acumulated a huge amount of experience. That's why are like frigging aimbots.
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  5. #5
    One factor I found was the deadzone on the stick. Don't have any deadzone, or you'll have to push the stick through it every time you need to change from elevators-up to elevators-down!

    I heard of an airline pilot who, when landing, would deliberately put the aircraft out of trim (in pitch) and control the attitude on the descent by adjusting the pressure he put on the control column. I found that works quite well for aiming at ground targets too.
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  6. #6
    I trim for 450 km/h prior to dogfights (crosshair touching top of flight vector circle). I mostly end up shooting at 300-350 km/h, with about a ring, ring and a half deflection. Which is perfect - at 300km/h the plane is tail heavy, and is turning all by itself, and I need to make small ajustments with the stick to get the right lead. Besides, its good to have a centered stick while shooting - minute movements dont result in huge control responces (that, off course, only holds for a progressive stick curve).
    According to that logic, one actually needs full back trim for a dogfight, but off course a dogfight is more than shooting, the a/c must also be flyable.
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  7. #7
    Pls correct me if I'm wrong, but a trimmed aircraft at 450 knots, when slowed to 300 knots, should become NOSE-heavy, not tail-heavy, or is it?
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  8. #8
    vanjast's Avatar Senior Member
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    I'm always trimming, and as I get into a tight DF trimming the nose-up is a continious business.
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  9. #9
    This is something I struggled with when I first got the game. The only time I trim now is when I'm extending (running away). I always use FW190 and I find they become nose heavy at about 370-380km/h. As, in a turn type fight, you will likely be going slower than this I find the plane much more responsive without trim. It depends what your flying I suppose. A Me109 will start to become nose light at a lower speed than above.
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  10. #10
    Originally posted by Superio83:
    Pls correct me if I'm wrong, but a trimmed aircraft at 450 knots, when slowed to 300 knots, should become NOSE-heavy, not tail-heavy, or is it?
    Yep it shoul be nose-heavy.
    As for me, i trim just when not fighting, for combat i always set trim to neutral, because i am just used to having plane tail heavy.
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