Senior Member
I'm surprised Herr Celeon hasn't already posted this. Israel has taken delivery of two German made submarines and according to this article they are capable of launching nuclear missiles.
Are these U212 types the ones with the hydrogen propulsion that Celeon posted a while back?
UPI link
Senior Member
Senior Member
One thing this article, and basically almost all newspapers get wrong is the type of the submarine.
The Dolphin is not a type 212 (sometimes called U212) , its a Dolphin, related to the 212 but a class of its own with several differences.
Dolphin was there first, specifically developed for Israel to replace their GAL class uboats (type 206) which were made by the same manufacturer.
Based on the 209, they were used to test several systems for the 212 (for instance the computer systems) during its development phase BUT unlike the Dolphin the 212 has no systems of the 209 but completely new ones specifically developed for it. The Dolphin uses most of the systems the 209s have (with adaptions and modifications by Israeli companies of course)
The main technical difference is, or rather was, that the first three Dolphins which Israel has in service now, had no AIP (Air Independend Propulsion) system which makes them classical diesel subs with the standard capability for staying submerged for just around 48 hours at a time.
However, the new Dolphins now delivered HAVE the same proton exchange membrane hydrogen fuel cells from Siemens the 212's have, giving them AIP capability for staying submerged for more than 3 weeks and thus making them even more superior to Iran's three Kilo class submarines.
Im assuming that the first three will be upgraded now.
Difference in armament is that the Dolphin has additional four 650 mm launch tubes which could theoretically fire the AGM-142 missile "Popeye Turbo"
While having very different interior systems and propulsion, the 212's hull was initially supposed to be identical to the Dolphin until its conning tower and some smaller parts of the above sea-level hull were completely redesigned shortly before entering production.
This is now the main visual difference which makes it very easy to keep the two classes apart. (Beside the in-your-face obvious color difference that is)
Dolphin
212
Banned
@Celeon;
OK, …..Here’s a little Tactical/Strategic question that should appeal to those who enjoy trying to predict future events.
Since it is CLEARLY in the best interests of the Dolphin’s “New Owners” to get at least one of these boats into the waters adjacent to the Gulf of Oman; ….How will they do it??
Will they risk the “Political Fallout” that would result from a VERY public passage through the Suez Canal? ……..Or would they quietly arrange for the “At-Sea” refueling stops that a discrete trip around the Cape of Good Hope would require???? (I am assuming that the Dolphin Class has an approximate range of 15,000 KM, like the 212s.)
klcarroll
Senior Member
Originally posted by klcarroll:
@Celeon;
OK, …..Here’s a little Tactical/Strategic question that should appeal to those who enjoy trying to predict future events.
Since it is CLEARLY in the best interests of the Dolphin’s “New Owners” to get at least one of these boats into the waters adjacent to the Gulf of Oman; ….How will they do it??
Will they risk the “Political Fallout” that would result from a VERY public passage through the Suez Canal? ……..Or would they quietly arrange for the “At-Sea” refueling stops that a discrete trip around the Cape of Good Hope would require???? (I am assuming that the Dolphin Class has an approximate range of 15,000 KM, like the 212s.)
klcarroll
I thought this question was already answered ?
Israeli sub sails through Suez Canal
Senior Member
Really?
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1097643.html
I guess we'll find a special freighter "Schlomo Alberich" listed at Lloyd's...
Remember Stromberg's 'Liparus' in "The Spy Who Loved Me"?
Senior Member
Dont quite understand why there would be political fallout over Israel using the canal. Egypt knows very well they will get the living crap kicked out of them if they tried any funny business. Two wars and a crisis prove that much.
I've always found a certain amount of irony in Germany selling U-boats to Israel.
Banned
I thought this question was already answered ?
Israeli sub sails through Suez Canal
BAH! .....Apples and Oranges!!
Sailing through the Canal is fine IF you are doing it for "Show & Tell", and you WANT everyone to know about it!
However, if you are sending out a nuclear armed boat on a REAL mission, the very LAST thing you would do is notify the entire World (...and every Iranian ASW unit) by parading through the Suez Canal!!!
The "New Owners" may occasionally seem to have more Cajonnes than Caution; .....But they are NOT stupid!
klcarroll
Senior Member
As the Suez Canal does not have any watergates, it would theoretically be possible for the Dolphin to cross the whole canal submerged with around 5 meters above and beneath it.
For aslong as no helicopter flies over and accidently sees it , it could stay undetected for the whole journey.
That would require a excellent crew with massive Otto Kretschmer/Günther Prien cajonnes and strong faith into the precision work quality of the egyptian Suez Canal Authority though.
Latter would be my greatest concern
I could imagine that the Dolphin which crossed it recently took the chance to make unusually often use of its active sonar to create a precise map of the channel floor.
Just in case.
Banned
I could imagine that the Dolphin which crossed it recently took the chance to make unusually often use of its active sonar to create a precise map of the channel floor.
Just in case. At least i would do that. To have such a map in your possession could become very useful one day.
Now THAT'S an intriguing idea!!!
.....The Israeli version of "Red Route One", ...Ehh???
klcarroll
