1. #21
    waffen-79's Avatar Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    1,656
    ahhaha In sowiet russia, game releases you!

    maybe it was SoW itself that wants to be released
    Share this post

  2. #22
    Xiolablu3's Avatar Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Posts
    8,755
    If I was Oleg, I wouldnt bother telling anyone about my next project until 3 months before release.
    Keep it completely secret.

    That would stop the pre-pubescant kids whining for a release before its ready, and also hackers even knowing there was anything to steal.
    Share this post

  3. #23
    Originally posted by Messaschnitzel:
    Consider if a company or an individual had put years of effort and money into an original CAD design for a device, (or even software for a computer game) and that designer/creator's computer was successfully hacked by an outside source, how is this action legally defined?
    In that example it would be considered industrial espionage, which is generally considered a more serious crime than theft.

    In the case of file sharing (music, movies, etc.), since the original owner has not been deprived of the use of their property, but merely the exclusive rights to distribute copies of their property as afforded them by the copyright laws, it is not theft or stealing, it is copyright infringement. The problem is the laws were intended to operate on a corporate scale, it wasn't envisioned that the private citizen would be able to engage in mass distribution of intellectual property, thus verdicts that fine single mothers almost $2billion.
    Share this post

  4. #24
    Chivas's Avatar Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Posts
    1,609
    You can use all the legalese you want, but its still STEALING.
    Share this post

  5. #25
    Old_Canuck's Avatar Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Posts
    1,408
    From Webster's dictionary:

    Definition of STEAL
    intransitive verb
    1
    : to take the property of another wrongfully and especially as a habitual or regular practice
    2
    : to come or go secretly, unobtrusively, gradually, or unexpectedly
    3
    : to steal or attempt to steal a base
    transitive verb
    1
    a : to take or appropriate without right or leave and with intent to keep or make use of wrongfully <stole a car> b : to take away by force or unjust means <they've stolen our liberty> c : to take surreptitiously or without permission <steal a kiss> d : to appropriate to oneself or beyond one's proper share : make oneself the focus of <steal the show>
    2
    a : to move, convey, or introduce secretly : smuggle b : to accomplish in a concealed or unobserved manner <steal a visit>
    3
    a : to seize, gain, or win by trickery, skill, or daring <a basketball player adept at stealing the ball> <stole the election> b of a base runner : to reach (a base) safely solely by running and usually catching the opposing team off guard
    — steal·able\?st?-l?-b?l\ adjective
    — steal·er noun
    — steal a march on
    : to gain an advantage on unobserved
    — steal one's thunder
    : to grab attention from another especially by anticipating an idea, plan, or presentation; also : to claim credit for another's idea
    Examples of STEAL

    1. They stole thousands of dollars' worth of jewelry from the store.
    2. He discovered that his car had been stolen.
    3. The store manager accused the boy of stealing.
    4. I stole a cookie from the cookie jar.
    5. They stole our best pitcher away from our team.
    6. His outstanding performance stole the show.
    [7. He attempted to steal code from Oleg's computer but failed because the connection was too slow.]

    Origin of STEAL
    Middle English stelen, from Old English stelan; akin to Old High German stelan to steal
    First Known Use: before 12th century

    ====================================
    Share this post

  6. #26
    Originally posted by Chivas:
    You can use all the legalese you want, but its still STEALING.
    Say it however many times you like, no one has ever be charged with theft for downloading anything. It's no less illegal, no less morally wrong, but copyright infringement is not theft. The equating of illegal filesharing and theft is pure propaganda from the media industries that stand to profit from the legalized extortion they are perpetrating upon their customers. Just recently a lawyer that handles copyright suits accidentally posted his entire website up to the public as a backup, including all his private and business emails. He basically admits in these emails that they send out millions of letters threatening suit for illegal filesharing in hopes that a certain percentage will settle for a few hundred to a few thousand dollars, and they know that quite a number of these letters go out to completely innocent people. The media industries scream and cry about lost profits and how filesharing is killing the industry, they make this noise in order to lobby for stricter copyright laws and enforcement, all the while they are making record profits even in this economic downturn. There is a bill in congress right now that will require the DOJ to police the internet and gives them extremely broad powers to shut down sites that may be used for piracy. This bill is so broad that if it had been enacted several years back then youtube would not exist today. Copyright is set up specifically as a civil matter, and all enforcement is to be pursued in civil court by the rights holder, this bill and others the industry have and are lobbying for will REQUIRE that the government prosecute violators on behalf of the media industry. Not only are they making record profits, not only do they want tighter and tighter control over every aspect of the way we are or are not allowed to consume our media, they want the federal government and our tax dollars to do their job of protecting their interests.

    So when people parrot their propaganda, I take exception. Illegal filesharing is NOT theft, it is copyright infringement! Violators of copyright are legally and rightfully subject to civil suit by the rightsholders, thieves have committed misdemeanors or felonies and are subject to arrest, fines, and incarceration. Do you see the difference, and more importantly do you see the dangers involved in culturally equating the two?
    Share this post

  7. #27
    Remotely sneaking onto Olegs home computer and trying to take a copy of the unreleased title, knowingly against the wishes of its rightful owner is most certainly an attempt at theft.
    Share this post

  8. #28
    Originally posted by Feathered_IV:
    Remotely sneaking onto Olegs home computer and trying to take a copy of the unreleased title, knowingly against the wishes of its rightful owner is most certainly an attempt at theft.
    Well theft requires the intent to deprive the owner use of said propery so no, that would be industrial espianage. My previous post though was not in response to the hacking, but others posts about filesharing.
    Share this post

  9. #29
    Chivas's Avatar Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Posts
    1,609
    Its still STEALING.
    Share this post

  10. #30
    VW-IceFire's Avatar Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Posts
    13,646
    Originally posted by Chivas:
    Its still STEALING.
    Actually Urufu_Shinjiro has very nicely summarized the legal position on what file sharing is and is not. Such activities are not stealing... they are considered copyright infringement. It would be a really good idea if people did not confuse the two.
    Share this post