1. #1
    Hello everyone!

    The final version of my bomber movie that I used as a training tool for filmmaking and can now surely be docked. It is called " Inside the Whirlwind", widescreen, about 20% new footage and fully sound FX ed. It is actually a total redo. I again want to thank my "mentor" Joe90 who took the time to help me in several aspects of flight sim moviemaking. Of course by watching other expert's and pioneers movies in this trade also helped me to try and put something decent together. I especially found the latest movies of Wolf, Monty-Dan, Joe90 and Mysticpuma very inspiring. I Hope I do not disappoint you guys with this movie!!

    Maybe it is a good idea for you to view the movie before reading the next part in order not to spoil your viewing:

    For quick view on You Tube (bad visual and audio quality however):

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QY39737MYcM

    For high res download:

    http://files.filefront.com/INSIDE+TH.../fileinfo.html

    The movie is in avi format suitable for your WMP.



    For you moviemakers I would like to share the way of thinking in making this movie and would appreciate you experienced guys comments and input:
    Story
    The story is very simple; It is a typical US 8th AF raid to Germany but is played around the controversial speech by Harris. The story is closed at the end with script where it is insinuated that the bomber crews pretty much also got reaped by the "whirlwind" The "massacre" of the bombers by the German fighters is overdone but for reason of portraying this message. The story is told more visually than by displaying script at regular intervals.
    The main goal of the movie however is visual and sound entertainment. The last scene is where the German fighters got shot down(the ones that I flew and that have shot down all the bombers!!!) so it stays fair play!!! (lol)
    Cinematography
    Here the goal is realism inspired by war time footage. Used a lot of filters. Most of the bomb run footage is slow mo that adds up to the "drama" and sadness of dropping bombs on civilians. I also include a section of footage from COH RTS game for the bombing scenes.
    Music
    For continuity I used the Apocalyptica "Coma" track as theme and is presented at the beginning, middle and end. The take-off music is played on the background of the engine noise and is the famous track by Glenn Miller who's music was popular by US bomber crews. The fighter action music could be seen by some not to fit in that era but it is alive and dramatic with the all-cello band Apocalyptica.
    Sound FX
    The B17 sounds are original as I have recorded it from B17 videos and I think it is really worth having a peek at it. Same with Bf109 sounds. The take-off scene can be a nice audio experience with all the different B17 sounds and is best when you put up the volume.


    Feel free for unrestricted critics as I see it all as part of learning!


    Enjoy!
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  2. #2
    Stunning!

    Bru, I have been looking forward to watching the final production, and I am really impressed.

    This is just a quick post as I am at work and only watched this during a coffee break. I'll feedback more later.

    ...oh, it might be worth putting a spoiler warning for the second half of your post
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  3. #3
    Excellent! The only thing I personally did not like (and its just a personal opinion) is the 'camera shake' when the buildings got hit.
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  4. #4
    310th Falcon's Avatar Senior Member
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    S! biltongbru

    Your second film I believe...for starters I like to say very well done.

    Really enjoy hearing real SFX sounds coming out of those engines...thank you for that.

    The soundtrack was also very well pick and edited beautifully.

    Cinematography was very good but the quality of the picture was poor and fuzzy thru-out most of the film, maybe this was done intentionality to give a fortyish look to it.

    1:23 - Couple of things stood out to me were the many static aircraft on the tarmac waiting their turn to take-off with engine turn off. I know that taxiing and moving on the tarmac is of course very limited if not impossible. I believe you can get your aircraft to move and taxiing using I believe a "secret" side base on certain maps. Of course the experts at "Mission Builder Forum" would have the correct answer how to accomplish that.

    2:24 – Same thing with the B-24's, it just didn't look right with the fly over and seeing B-24's with propellers not turning.

    2:42 – Love the take-offs with real Pratt & Whitney engines singing to me.

    4:07 - Enjoy the bombing run....visibly it look almost real and the cinematography was nice!

    4:45 – Of course I really like the use of <span class="ev_code_YELLOW">"Company of Heroes."</span> Much better than anything Il-2 could ever create.

    The shaking was off a bit but other than that very well done. Joe90 has mentioned this in a previous post...<span class="ev_code_YELLOW">"Maybe some atmospheric SFX like air raid siren, fire alarm bells, fire burning, maybe even screams if you can do that tastefully."</span> This would have added more to the horrible to the scene.

    The return home for the bombers was masterly done. Love the visual of bombers being shot out of air. IL2 gun-camera footages was done beautifully....great job there!!

    All in all biltongbru...very very well done.

    A keeper for sure!!


    Best Regards
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  5. #5
    Hi Falcon (Joe90 and JG52Uther thanks for your comments as well)

    Thanks for all your kind comments and also the pointers; I do appreciate the time you spent to analyze the movie!

    Just a few notes:
    1) Didn't the planes sometimes park the evening before the raid on their queue positions for take-off and then the following morning early start their engines? This is what I had in mind. I did not want to fly the camera over the AI planes in their parked positions with engines running just before take-off because they are parked unrealistically too perfect in a straight line. I intentionally parked the static planes randomly in a line.

    2) The reason for the non-sharp image: I wanted the movie to have a kind of grainy/hue look, similar to those war-time movies. For the whole movie I set the black&white on 25% and a fair amount of visual noise. Besides that I played a lot around with brightness, contrast, colours and glow.

    3) I did put in sirens and bomb whistle but with the sound mixing I am still a rookie; At the bombing scene I needed 5 sound tracks and in my final compilation I discovered that some of the sounds quality gets degraded and the mixing became a nightmare. I now for the first time understand why you need an expert sound guru for feature films!

    4) Maybe the experts can help me on my method of compiling the movie (I use Vegas):
    - I made 3 separate scenes and rendered them in lossless uncompressed clips (huffyuv) with their sounds (uncompressed pcm) (max 3 tracks)
    - I combined these three scenes clips in a new movie setup and then add the other sounds that I could not previously fit in. I experienced a definite degrading of sound quality. Maybe the mistake is that I put the audio rendering on uncompressed pcm?
    - I then follow the Joe90 route to the final compressed movie.

    Again ta for the input
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  6. #6
    Outstanding piece of work! A well done straight-forward "story"...a beginning, middle, and end...and a 'message'. But, LOTS of combat action as well. It's hard to strike the right balance between the two elements. I am very impressed!

    I enjoyed it from beginning to end...Great choice of cameras/cinematography for the bomb-dropping sequences..Very realistic looking. Incorporation of COH ground scenes of Bomb explosions/damage was a unique treat in an IL2 movie...and was accomplished by you very realistically given the constraints of COH (the unavoidable excessive building/camera shaking of explosions). I wish you had added some of the COH Ground crews firing AAA, with which you have been experimenting..such clips, interspersed with your shots of heavy Flak bursts in the sky might have been very effective...and definitely unique, once again

    Sound FX (engines) were a great addition... As for Sound Mixing, many of us have become aware of how extraordinarily difficult that task is...Ask Falcon, Joe, and others who worked on several different movies in 2006 and 2007.

    Visually, I also saw that your final Resolution/quality was quite a bit rough/blurry, but I think it worked well to create an aged "atmosphere" for your movie...

    I agree with Joe-90 that you might consider modifying your first post so as not to give away plot elements of the story...or at least add a bright/large Spoiler Warning so that folks on this Forum will watch the movie First, before reading your post.

    You've broken some new ground with this movie, showing great creativity, and I definitely consider it a real "Hit"! I'd be happy to 'sponsor' this movie for inclusion at the FlightSimMovies website...the selection process and standards there are quite stringent, as you know...so no promises.
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  7. #7
    Thanks Doolittle for your thorough and encouraging comments; much appreciated!!
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  8. #8
    Hi again, biltonbru. Some more comments from me, then.

    Very realistic looking clips. The combination of filters and low quality grainy look works well.

    Lots of good camera angles, good cutting. Great use of lighting.

    The use of the plane cam makes a huge difference - it makes it feel more real.

    Some excellent sound mixing in places, but generally the mix wasn't emphasising the right sopunds in several places. Sound mixing is an art in itself, and modt of us get it wrong. Falcon is one of the better at working with audio - I nick all his ideas, and even some of his sounds for myself, lol!

    You have frame bleeding in a lot of shots – play the movie back one frame at a time and you will see some frames bleeding into their adjacent ones. This is usually caused by a mismatch in fps somewhere along the way, e.g. you might have set the wrong fps in After Effects compared to the final fps. It can also be caused by trying to change the fps but keeping the same time passage. Not a big deal, but a point worth watching for.

    Specific points:

    0:16 the slide in of the Harris clip would have been better as a stationary dissolve.

    0:45 pixelisation - you must have zoomed in too much in Vegas.

    1:25 I like Glenn Miller this time It works perfectly with the ominous and threatening sound of the engines. A great sound mix.

    1:36 pixelisation. And a few others later, same issue as at 0:45.

    3:01 the whole approach is excellently filmed, good SFX and a very good choice of music. Maybe some internal shots would have added some human interest. The view from the cockpit, or a gunner?

    4:38 I see you tried to put some kind of establishing shot in to show the ground target. I would have done more of this and showed some kind of town below.

    4:44 The first noticeable directional continuity error, lol. There was a minor one earlier, but not worth mentioning. To get this far into a movie with hardly any DC errors is an achievement for a new movie maker! The error was the bombs dropping in the previous shot from L to R, then hitting the ground from R to L. Not a biggie, as it is a frantic bombing scene anyway.

    The camera shake in COH is poor. I would have tried to mask it by adding even more!

    6:14 continuity error - the bombs are seen dropping here after the bomb raid.

    6:39 the fighters appeared too suddenly and it wasn't clear what was going on. Either make an establishing shot to show them approach, or choose a better first shot - something like a close up of their guns firing.

    I wasn't keen on the music for the attack, but that's probably just my taste. It's very hard to get music everybody likes!

    All in all, good action and fast camera changes. I would have used more pilot pov shots, and some rear gunners' or bomber pilots' pov.

    Good guncam effects.

    8:04 Odd not seeing the reticule. You forgot to lean into the gunsight.

    9:04 this was an odd sequence. It looked a bit out of place and different. Maybe it was different filters? I understand that you were trying to even the odds, but it detracted from the message you were trying to portray. Did you really want to put this sequence in, or were you reacting to some criticisms from other forums on previous demos?

    Another note is the side on view of fire and smoke looks very unnatural, especially if the aircraft is going at speed - you get lots of little fake puffs.

    9:43 I wouldn't have said 'Sadly'. No need to. The images and the music make that clear.

    Also, to hammer home your motive, I would have left out 'and airmen' on this screen, and faded it in on another screen. It is sometimes good to hammer home your message if it is unclear in the main movie, unless you want to intrigue your audience and make them figure it out for themselves.

    Finally, put in more credits. Make sure everyone gets the credit they deserve, for example, the skinners.

    And finally final, get yourself a Production Company name and get it slapped right up there at the start of your next movie. I hope we'll be seeing a lot more of it
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  9. #9
    310th Falcon's Avatar Senior Member
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    Joe_90 wrote:
    Falcon is one of the better at working with audio - <span class="ev_code_YELLOW"> I nick all his ideas,</span> and even some of his sounds for myself, lol!
    Is that right...

    I expect my royalty payments are in the mail to me.......right??


    Best Regards
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  10. #10
    GL2's Avatar Senior Member
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    Joe emailed me about your film, biltongbru. Nicely done! The cinemtography and editing were handled well. And you integrated the video from the other sim well. Oh, and I see you made the cut at Flight Sim Machinima.

    http://flightsimmachinima.montydan.com/2008-movies
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