1. #1
    AerialTarget's Avatar Banned
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    Since most flight simulator people, players and developers alike, seem to believe that warbirds cannot be stalled without spinning, I am posting a few links. These are the official United States Army Air Force training videos, and were shown to the pilots who were to fly these planes in the war. This post has taken several hours to compile; please do not scoff.

    About nine minutes and forty seconds into this film, a P-38 Lightning stalls without dipping a wing. The narrator, a P-38 pilot himself, goes on to say, "Accelerated stalls, accompanied by normal buffeting, occur on any airplane when the angle of attack is increased to the point that the airflow over the wing becomes turbulent. This can happen in sharp turns, pullouts, or other severe maneuvers. The Thirty Eight is designed to take the buffeting of the stall, and has no tendency to slip off on either wing at any altitude." It is true that its contrarotating propellers give it an advantage over single engined fighters, however, so here are some more videos.

    About thirteen minutes and fifty seconds into this film, a P-47 Thunderbolt performs a perfect example of what I am talking about.

    About twenty six minutes and forty seconds into this film, a P-39 Airacobra performs several stalls without dipping a wing. Another beautiful one occurs at about twenty eight minutes and fifty seconds.

    About fourteen minutes into this film, it shows several spins and then one stall without a spin. And this is the F-4U Corsair, which is notorious for spinning in a stall. Even the Ensign Eliminator can be stalled without spinning, as this video shows.

    The P-40 Warhawk, the F-6 Hellcat, and the P-51 Mustang, at least the models shown in the videos, apparently cannot stall without dipping a wing.

    These videos show two things. Firstly, the IL-2 Sturmovik series is wrong about stalls. And secondly, some warbirds can be stalled without dipping a wing, and some cannot. Anyone who says, "old high performance fighters cannot
    stall without spinning" is wrong.
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  2. #2
    Q: How do you train for spin recovery on Corsair?
    A: You don't!
    Movie shows a nasty stall indeed...
    Interesting bit of data from the movie "Do not exceed 7G under any load conditions"
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  3. #3
    VW-IceFire's Avatar Senior Member
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    Seen some of those videos...I know...but prior to 4.0 there hasn't been provisions for such a stall type. FB's stalls represent the FW190 more than they do the P-38. Soon apparently not anymore! But you already know this don't you?
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  4. #4
    That Yak-3 in the 4.0 tracks looked like it's doing a 1G stall...looked promising, although there were disturbing rumors on this forum that later beta's FM is somewhat more "casual player friendly" (although more demanding and realistic then our current 3.04).
    Needless to say...suspense is killing me
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  5. #5
    TAGERT.'s Avatar Banned
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    Originally posted by AerialTarget:
    Since most flight simulator people, players and developers alike, seem to believe that warbirds cannot be stalled without spinning, I am posting a few links. These are the official United States Army Air Force training videos, and were shown to the pilots who were to fly these planes in the war. This post has taken several hours to compile; please do not scoff.

    About nine minutes and forty seconds into this film, a P-38 Lightning stalls without dipping a wing. The narrator, a P-38 pilot himself, goes on to say, "Accelerated stalls, accompanied by normal buffeting, occur on any airplane when the angle of attack is increased to the point that the airflow over the wing becomes turbulent. This can happen in sharp turns, pullouts, or other severe maneuvers. The Thirty Eight is designed to take the buffeting of the stall, and has no tendency to slip off on either wing at any altitude." It is true that its contrarotating propellers give it an advantage over single engined fighters, however, so here are some more videos.

    About thirteen minutes and fifty seconds into this film, a P-47 Thunderbolt performs a perfect example of what I am talking about.

    About twenty six minutes and forty seconds into this film, a P-39 Airacobra performs several stalls without dipping a wing. Another beautiful one occurs at about twenty eight minutes and fifty seconds.

    About fourteen minutes into this film, it shows several spins and then one stall without a spin. And this is the F-4U Corsair, which is notorious for spinning in a stall. Even the Ensign Eliminator can be stalled without spinning, as this video shows.

    The P-40 Warhawk, the F-6 Hellcat, and the P-51 Mustang, at least the models shown in the videos, apparently cannot stall without dipping a wing.

    These videos show two things. Firstly, the IL-2 Sturmovik series is wrong about stalls. And secondly, some warbirds can be stalled without dipping a wing, and some cannot. Anyone who says, "old high performance fighters cannot
    stall without spinning" is wrong.
    Your going to like the patch! At least the P38!
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  6. #6
    doesn`t work?

    Well, whatever. Although I want realism for my flight sims, i`m not sure what the point of this is. I`m still going to fly and enjoy FB and not get myself into a tizz because my plane didn`t quite stall out correctly.

    There were loads of faults at the start of IL2. The most noticable ones to me were AI behaviour, for example the 109 AI used to always turn fight no matter what. If you flew real low to the ground the AI would never follow you, breaking off too early. When an aircraft`s wing was shot off they never spun like they sometimes do now. Over time these things have been fixed...

    I noticed this because I look for fighter AI realism, you look for accurate stalls because that`s your little thing.

    These fms over time I`m sure will be fixed as the technology moves on (even if not in 4.0).

    My point is Oleg is probably aware of a lot of these things and due to time, money, PC capabilities has not got round to fixing them all.

    But he eventually gets round to it. The ultimate fix will probably be in BOB.



    Had I been so fussy at the start of 1st version of IL2 as you are with PF I would NEVER have lasted this long with the sim.
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  7. #7
    AerialTarget's Avatar Banned
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    Actually, the reason I posted this was not really to insult the game as much as inform people of how warbirds should stall. I've been getting a lot of flak at the Pacific Fighters forum from a staggeringly large number of people who believe that warbirds have to drop a wing when they stall like in the game.

    Also, simulator developers don't seem to know this either. I've never seen a World War Two simulator that does stalls right since Dynamix's early nineties simulators. It's not that the technology hasn't been there; the fact that Dynamix made simulators with both stalls and spins back in the ninties proves that this isn't true. Rather, it seems to me that people are under the impression that warbirds can't be stalled without spinning. The arguments I've been in here confirm that.
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  8. #8
    Being a (one-time) flight instructor, I don't think I've found a flight-sim yet that has accurate stall/spin characteristics. M$ FS 9 comes close, but still fells fake.

    The stall/spins in PF is so ridiculous that I turn it off. If it was accurate there would have been no-one left to fight the war...all the pilots would have spun in.
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  9. #9
    Originally posted by MADP:
    Being a (one-time) flight instructor, I don't think I've found a flight-sim yet that has accurate stall/spin characteristics. M$ FS 9 comes close, but still fells fake.

    The stall/spins in PF is so ridiculous that I turn it off. If it was accurate there would have been no-one left to fight the war...all the pilots would have spun in.

    I agree 100%. I'm keeping up my hopes that the new 4.0 FM will attempt to fix this problem.

    Where did you flight instruct at? I'm taking my CFI cert. course this Fall.

    I haven't played PF in about 3 weeks now since I'm home from college and won't have access to it until June 4th. Could someone humor me and give me a description of what happens when you try to stall the plane with stalls and spins off?
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  10. #10
    Originally posted by darkhorizon11:

    I agree 100%. I'm keeping up my hopes that the new 4.0 FM will attempt to fix this problem.

    Where did you flight instruct at? I'm taking my CFI cert. course this Fall.

    I haven't played PF in about 3 weeks now since I'm home from college and won't have access to it until June 4th. Could someone humor me and give me a description of what happens when you try to stall the plane with stalls and spins off?
    I can tell you. The plane simply doesn`t stall, no matter what you do, you can fly in circles forever without stalling.

    Originally posted by MADP:
    The stall/spins in PF is so ridiculous that I turn it off. If it was accurate there would have been no-one left to fight the war...all the pilots would have spun in.
    I really find this VERY hard to believe. I`ve never flown an aircraft so I don`t really know, but I fly with stalls and spins on all the time, the I16, Spit, P40, Mig, etc and very rarely stall unless I make a very evasive manouever. I could well believe that while stalls may not be totally accurate they would certainly be survivable for trained pilots in real life.

    All the pilots would have spun in if real? No, what you say cannot be true.
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