1. #11
    ROXunreal's Avatar Senior Member
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    "which left five people dead and many seriously ill"

    LSD does not make people "ill" after its effects have worn off, nor does it cause muscle spasms, like ergot does.

    "It was terrible. I had the sensation of shrinking and shrinking, and the fire and the serpents coiling around my arms,"

    Fire of the serpents coiling around arms = vasoconstriction = ergotism.


    Though this is not to say that there was no conspiracy, the CIA gave hundreds of people LSD, PCP and a lot of other drugs against their will or without their knowledge, which left a few people dead. Google MKULTRA.
    It's one of the few conspiracies that are actually true and have been proven so.
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  2. #12
    AndyJWest's Avatar Senior Member
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    LSD does not make people "ill" after its effects have worn off, nor does it cause muscle spasms, like ergot does.
    True enough. As I understand it, Ergotamine, the active ingredient in the ergot fungus, may be used in the synthesis of LSD - perhaps it was a contaminated batch?

    I tend to be wary of conspiracy theories, but as you say, there is strong evidence of CIA involvement in LSD 'experiments' on unknowing victims. I'd have to classify this as a 'maybe' on the evidence we have, with straightforward ergot poisoning seeming as likely. This doesn't explain the CIA document referring to 'burying' Pont-Saint-Esprit files though...
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  3. #13
    ROXunreal's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally posted by AndyJWest:
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">LSD does not make people "ill" after its effects have worn off, nor does it cause muscle spasms, like ergot does.
    True enough. As I understand it, Ergotamine, the active ingredient in the ergot fungus, may be used in the synthesis of LSD - perhaps it was a contaminated batch?

    I tend to be wary of conspiracy theories, but as you say, there is strong evidence of CIA involvement in LSD 'experiments' on unknowing victims. I'd have to classify this as a 'maybe' on the evidence we have, with straightforward ergot poisoning seeming as likely. This doesn't explain the CIA document referring to 'burying' Pont-Saint-Esprit files though... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I just think it's far more likely that it was a simple ergot poisoning than a covert CIA experiment in a friendly country gone wrong via impure LSD. I also think that if the "burying Pont-Saint-Esprit files" part is true, it may only mean that the CIA was investigating the incident. Maybe they suspected the soviets for doing such an experiment or were just curious about what went on there? Who knows...it would be much easier for the CIA to do such an experiment in some remote village on their soil than do it in a foreign country...
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  4. #14
    Oh another "conspiracy theory" the cia never experimented on people with lSd. They certainly didn't develop a "heart attack gun" that leave no traces either.

    Conspiracies blah ! No such thing. People actually say the shooting of president Lincoln was a conspiracy TOO ! It was just john wilke Booth. Silly people.

    Kennedy conspiracy NONESENSE ! Watch..

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XY02Qkuc_f8

    Julius Caesar's assassination?

    another conspirator's silly theory. Made up by Shakespeare to sell more seats at his plays.
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  5. #15
    Originally posted by ROXunreal:
    I also think that if the "burying Pont-Saint-Esprit files" part is true,
    Considering the risks, costs and legality of giving unsuspecting civilians comparable doses of LSD, it would not be surprising if CIA bought up those files. This is what is called a "natural experiment" in natural science, and is the same reason scientists flock to newly formed volcanic islands, forest fire sites and industrial accidents.
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  6. #16
    ROXunreal's Avatar Senior Member
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    Yeah, only too bad that MKULTRA had little to do with actual science. It's like unit 731 "research", completely useless, illegal *and* at a great cost in both resources and people's lives, a bunch of dimwits with too much power and resources, with an "hey lets do this and watch what happens" approach. Very few of them, if any, were actual scientists that actually understood what scientific research is about.
    MKULTRA was just a waste of a good drug.
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  7. #17

    pza7reYl/

    This appears to be a tremendous riddle. The operative principle must be "don't let your bread (or bread crumbs) be compromised." The motivation for something like this is hard to locate. Another way to look at it is that one files this away in the folder of the majority of life's mysteries which will remain unsolved.
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