1. #1
    Whats the trick to fighting the bloody things, they're so easy to fly and good at everything so how do you kill them, they climb well, good guns, good speed, good turning.
    even zoom and boom just end up out turning you atlast second then shooting you
    the best tactics for shooting planes like that and yak3p and la7 etc
    i know la7 is bad at high alt but what about spit, its good at everything
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  2. #2
    slipBall's Avatar Senior Member
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    What you need is a very large fly swatter, or fly paper
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  3. #3
    VW-IceFire's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally posted by Adseh:
    Whats the trick to fighting the bloody things, they're so easy to fly and good at everything so how do you kill them, they climb well, good guns, good speed, good turning.
    even zoom and boom just end up out turning you atlast second then shooting you
    the best tactics for shooting planes like that and yak3p and la7 etc
    i know la7 is bad at high alt but what about spit, its good at everything
    This is precisely why the Spitfire was one of the best fighters of WWII (not THE best...but one of them). The Spitfire did pretty much everything well. It was just as fast as its contemporaries, it was eventually well armed, it was able to turn quickly, the clipped wing variants rolled fast enough, and it was good at low, medium, and high altitudes. As several veteran Spitfire pilots pointed out...the great difference between the Spitfire and the 109 was that any idiot could fly the Spitfire. True historically and true in the sim.


    That said...there are some weaknesses you can exploit. The roll rate at high speeds is poor at best so flying a fighter with a high roll rate can sometimes manage to flick away in a high speed dive. Its also not the toughest plane so light battle damage, although sustainable, is going to increasingly prevent the Spitfire from being a capable fighter. Finally, its often flown by new and inexperienced pilots online so you can leverage pure skill over them in many cases. But do fear the more experienced Spitfire pilots as they are a true threat to anyone flying any plane.

    Its hard to say exactly what the best strategy for you is as I don't know what your flying but the best moves in both the 109 and the 190 is twofold:

    1) Fly as a team and not by yourself...use team tactics to single the enemy out and attack them repeatedly or to help clear each others tails when a Spitfire tries to get around on it.

    2) Use slash attacks from above with superior energy. This was a common Luftwaffe tactic with both the FW190 and the Bf109. Although both types can theoretically stay and fight a protracted engagement...the method of attack is always in the vertical leveraging superior energy/speed to prevent the Spitfire(s) from gaining altitude or being able to go onto the offensive.

    In general...if you fly it right...the Spitfires will never have the opportunity to get more than a few passing shots at you as you fly past. Your situation is dire and you've made some mistakes when you find yourself low and slow with a Spitfire.

    I tend to feel that, when I'm doing things right, that the Spitfires have no chance and that the whole state of affairs is sort of "unfair", but that is WWII combat tactics at its finest and when it comes right down to it...you want to use the method that puts you the least at risk.

    The art of energy fighting and the bomm and zoom technique are not easily mastered for most pilots. You'll find yourself suckered in at some point...I still do get suckered in sometimes...I usually pay for it and I sit back and realize the exact turning point where I made the critical mistake and allowed him to leverage his advantages against my weaknesses.

    Remember that the BNZ is often done with the element of surprise...in the absense of that you have to play the game where you are forcing the Spitfire to keep turning to evade. Every turn reduces his energy as he expends it making the turn. Meanwhile you need to ensure that every move you make is a very considered and controlled one where you burn the least amount of energy. As the fight continues his E decreases while yours is maintained. Sooner or later he will be low on E and an easy target...OR...you'll correctly manage to land a deflection shot with a solid burst of gunfire (a technique that works best on the FW190s with the heavy guns and wide spread of fire). This is of course even better when the Spitfires are trying to evade a co-ordinated attack as they are forced to evade more than one bandit...often giving advantage to one of the attackers to score hits.
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  4. #4
    hmmm eevrytime i end up BNZ i just get caught i'll dive down he'll flip round and end up climbing faster than i did :S
    damn buggers!
    just need more height i guess, but i cant see bugger all in the fw190 cockpit they are such hard planes to use
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  5. #5
    try outflying the pilot and not the plane......
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  6. #6
    VW-IceFire's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally posted by Adseh:
    hmmm eevrytime i end up BNZ i just get caught i'll dive down he'll flip round and end up climbing faster than i did :S
    damn buggers!
    just need more height i guess, but i cant see bugger all in the fw190 cockpit they are such hard planes to use
    Right...this used to be my problem as well...the things I found myself doing wrong were:

    1) Diving straight down to attack the enemy

    2) Not positioning myself very well to attack from the rear quarter

    3) Attempting to pull straight into a vertical climb immediately following the attack

    4) Following the Spitfire too much into a turn or other evasive manuever

    I think for you it may be number three that is getting you. It sounds like your probably attacking and then pulling as quickly away as possible. This ironically puts you at a disadvantage because while your rapidly turning your energy into altitude again...your also nose up at a high AoA (angle of attack) and soon your zoom climb will be over and he'll be able to sustain climb upto you.

    What you want to do is extend first and then climb. Usually I mix this up by attacking...then pulling gently into maybe a 20 degree climb at the most...then I steepen it a little to get up and away and then circle for another attack. The other problem with the vertical climb away is that your very suddenly introducing a high AoA position which bleeds energy quickly...particularly in a FW190 which has very high wingloading. You want to be smooth and controlled when you do this.

    To further throw the Spitfire off...I'd suggest a half roll as you extend just to put yourself quickly but gently on a different heading so he both has to pull up AND roll into a new position.

    Again...the wingman is critical here. If the Spitfire does elect to try and climb up...your wingman should be ontop of him to blast the Spitfire as he's now climbing and is presenting his large wing profile (which makes a surprisingly easy target).
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  7. #7
    tigertalon's Avatar Senior Member
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    If you fly 109s:

    most of them can outclimb contemporary spits (by a smal margin tough) and are in general faster. Outclimb him (climb at around 270kph), when he is falling back, start slightly pulling back on stick, so even increasing angle of climb and loosing speed. Ingame 109 has great low speed handling, so spit will stall before you will. Then swoop down on him.

    Train on 109F4 vs SpitMkV, then move on to G vs IX.
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  8. #8
    Brain32's Avatar Senior Member
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    Well IceFire gave some great advices, but there are some desparation moves that in my case often end up not to be so desparate. First like Ice said if you face an expirienced Spit pilot - run. There is apsolutley nothing you can do in any Axis plane. Co-alt engagements are a big NO again you have no chance unless he is a noob. Never dive strait down becuase Spit will keep up in firing range with you(historically? I don't think so). Anyway when things go bad force head-ons if you are a good shot you have a good chance of taking it down. Slowing down and getting it into rolling scissoring fight can also do the trick, neither will work against Spit pilots that know what are they doing.
    Also forget about shotting it down by geting on it's six, that is impossible, blind(FW) or not so blind(109) deflection shot is the way to do it. Some of my basic Spit engagement rules are:
    1. Don't engage at co-alt unless at extreme speed(600kph+)
    2. NEVER climb with the Spit, NEVER turn with the Spit(45 degrees is OK but not more)
    3. Bounce by going slightly under it first, because the feckers can see you in their make-up mirror.
    4. Always assume they have twice as much energy than you have, even if it doesen't make sense, you will live longer.
    All in all, Spitfire is the worst nightmare you can encounter in late war WesternFront scenario, 109's are really pesky when you play on Red with American planes or Tempest, but Spits eat them alive and ask for more. However, there is no greater pleasure than completely destroying a Spitfire in a duel and often, due to improper use not so hard as I described here.
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  9. #9
    VW-IceFire's Avatar Senior Member
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    Brain: Regarding the dives between the FW190 and the Spitfires...if you compare the FW190A-3 or A-4 in the early channel front campaigns the Mark V was not likely able to keep up. Not so much in the initial dive but in the protracted run as the V's top speed was not nearly as good and its dive, while good, was not as good over the long term.

    With the Spitfire IX the dives are very close. Historically...read The Big Show or Winged Combat and you'll see why two things are true:

    1) Spitfire pilots were reluctant to dive with FW190s

    2) That they could dive with FW190s and still score the kill

    Pierre Closterman got really frustrated from the sounds of it in one of the chapters and chased the FW190 from a high altitude fight all the way down and then shot him down at the bottom. The trouble with doing this is that it leaves you low, further away from home territory (deeper into occupied France or Belgium or whatever), and much lower on fuel after the chase. A virtual pilot doesn't care...but a real pilot might.
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  10. #10
    Brain32's Avatar Senior Member
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    I've read that story, but like you say, eventually caught him down not staying in firing range throughout the dive only loosing it at the end like we have in game, it's the initial dive acceleration that seems rather strange to me, I learned I can't count on that "advantage" long time ago so it's really not a big deal but I'm kinda suspicious about it...
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