1. #1

    What's wrong with Blacklist - New Splinter Cell Remake Suggestions from SC1-CT

    Hello. I want to make a forum post with my experience and opinions on what makes Splinter Cell a good game, from a player whose favorites are Splinter cell 1 through Chaos theory. I have probably replayed 1/PT(pandora tomorrow)/CT 5 to 10 times throughout the years.

    I'm going to unbiasedly point out that the gameplay from Double Agent was okay, but the game itself was lacking.

    I hated Conviction - To me it wasn't even a Splinter Cell game but more of a story DLC for the relationship between Sam and Sarah.

    I'm giving Blacklist a shot, which is a much more complete Splinter Cell game, but also lacks what makes Splinter Cell a good game to begin with, which is the reason I am making this post. I still prefer old SC to Blacklist.

    So I heard there was a new Splinter Cell announced and that got me pretty excited, but if it is anything like Blacklist, I don't think it will be a memorable game.

    With my favorites being SC1-CT, I'm going to first explain why they are my favorite and why I can replay them and enjoy them every single time.
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    SC1-CT - What makes them great?

    #1. The environments and sound. - The ambience of the maps, sound effects, low music if sometimes none at all. Yes you can turn off music in BL, but there is a lack of ambience as a result. SC1-CT have a well designed ambience that adds immersion without needing music at all.

    #2. The map design. - The maps are designed in a way to make missions take a long time, and are linear enough to not lose your way and progress, but designed in a way that makes them feel enriching every time they're played. The variations in routes, the space to move around, to plan. It's all there, and it feels like you have freedom to move how you desire. The office/building maps were amazing.

    #3. The HUD and objective icons.. - This is a big one to me. The HUD is clean. It has your weapon/ammo count/gadget, light/sound meter, alarm count, in one small compact area on the HUD making it a clean, immersive experience.

    #4. Lack of objective icons. - There are no objective icons telling or showing you where to go on the HUD, which adds to the immersion, of having to find your way and not knowing where to go. This was the best in SC1-PT, then CT introduced a map which showed you where the objective was, was a good addition, but not bad enough to where it broke immersion. It worked.

    #5. Light meter and alarms. - These games do not have a 0/100% light/dark system, which worked extremely well and again adds tons of immersion to gameplay. Different rays of light will spike your meter a little, or a lot, or just enough to where you could be spotted but aren't. Huge + to me for gameplay. Bring back the light meter and different variations of light in the game. Alarms also made the game harder. If you get spotted or alerted and an alarm sounded, you knew your run was scuffed and it felt bad. It was unforgiving. Bring alarms back.= Good gameplay

    #6. The games presence. - Probably my absolute favorite and why these games are my favorite. When you are in a map, the games presence is the most immersive feeling ever. It feels like reality. The speed at which guards patrol, the speed at which your character moves paired with the scope of the map. Rushing through is unforgiving and doesn't feel rewarding. It feels like you are a splinter cell on a mission, hiding in the shadows, creeping up on enemies.

    #7. Physics/character physics. - Another huge one. When you're moving your character, you can feel the weight. You can feel the grabs and knockouts against enemies. This was cleaned up a bit in chaos theory and it probably felt the absolute best in CT, because we all know how clunky it could get in SC1/PT. However the weight felt great still, but a bit more responsive. This was almost removed entirely in conviction and felt terrible. Blacklist it felt a bit more like CT, but too responsive/arcady.

    #8. Character dialogue, - The dialogue between Sam, Lambert, and Grim was S tier. Sam especially of course because of Michael Ironside, but it felt like every character had an identity and the lines were something to remember. Huge + to immersion.

    #9. Lack of gadgets/weapons. - While the "futurism" of being an agent is cool, being limited to how many gadgets or what type of gadgets you can use in a mission was huge. It made the game more challenging and you had to save stuff as a last resort instead of using it offensively. + to difficulty and better gameplay imo.

    #10. Lack of aggression/weapons. - Another huge thing to go with presence, your pistol was almost used entirely for shooting out lights, and the rifle was used for gadgets, rarely shooting anyone, except for some necessary scoped silent headshots. This was awesome, because you didn't rely on gunning everyone down. Gun physics were also way better, hard to hit stuff with rifle since you had to hold your breath, and your pistol was garbage at range.

    #11. AI. - Ok the AI in SC1/PT sucked a lot, but they seemed way more human. Their reactions to thinking they saw something, or being alerted was A tier. Really good dialogue as well. Great in CT. Also ties in with presence, they were a lot more present, not on guard 500% of the time and it really made it seem like they had no clue a splinter cell was there. In Blacklist it's like they're just expecting you 24/7.

    #12 AI detection. - Nothing more memorable than hearing that piano note when an ai was suspicious in SC1. Still love it. Audible queue when detected = more immersion vs a visual HUD queue like Blacklist, just did it better.

    #13. Lockpicking, - Another huge immersion bonus for the game. Lockpicking was super fun even though it was repetitive. Just added something to the game and map design. Huge +.

    #14. Story. - Good, but doesn't make or break the game between the games imo. I loved the story missions between the politics and presidents, preventing wars, etc.

    #15. Overall game mechanics, total immersion. - Just felt good. Everything was a slower pace, stealth was required. 10/10.

    I might've missed a lot but here's most of why the first 3 SC's were amazing.
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    Double Agent. - Game mechanics were sort of like SC1-CT, but they added dumbed down systems like the removal of the light meter, worse ai/detection systems/just felt a bit rushed mechanics wise. The JBA maps were too much, took a lot away from the game. Not a terrible game, still felt Splinter Cellish but felt like a decline. 6/10.

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    Conviction. - Yeah it's just bad. It's a 3rd person cover shooter solely to exist as a story DLC, nothing more can be added. 2/10 as a SC game.

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    Blacklist. - A huge step up from conviction. Character felt a bit more weighty, felt more stealthy, AI were a bit more clueless. Good. I'm not going to write out a big # list because everything I said for SC1-CT can pretty much explain why I still dislike Blacklist, but I will speak on the most prominent things that immediately discredit it.

    #1. The HUD/Fov/Scope of the game. - It feels like Call of Duty, lets be honest. The objective markers, the detection indicator, [Space] Next cover etc popups (which can't be turned off btw, same with objective markers.) The gadgets and weapons HUD looks like an FPS game. Really immersion breaking. Ruins the vibe entirely.

    #2. Marking targets. - Just remove it entirely. Seriously. Why is this even a thing?

    #3. Playstyles. - Different playstyles are cool, but the game should be focused way more around stealth. You're literally a splinter cell. The ghost/panther/assault scoring is fine, but there really shouldn't be an assortment of weapons you can choose from. It literally feels like an arcade shooter. I know stealth scores higher, but panther and assault scoring should be based on your performance in the actual gameplay. Having to shoot someone - assault score. Assault shouldn't be "okay take explosives and auto rifles and blast your way through the game." I get your catering to a wider audience, but again, it makes the game worse.

    #4. Presence. - Game is way less present. It's just way faster paced. The way your character moves to how ai move, from your weapon arsenal/gadgets. Everything is just too cheesy.

    #5. Weapons/gadgets accessibility. - Way too many. You can bring an entire arsenal in each mission and just spam stuff, it's immersion/gameplay breaking. Big -.

    #6. Map design.- Some maps are cool, but too linear. Some give you more freedom but the maps just feel like a COD map with roaming ai. Scope of the maps feel WAY smaller than the first 3 games.

    #7. Stun gun. - At first I liked it, but it makes the game WAY too easy, even on perfectionist. It's just too free. Reduction of gadgets and having to choose stun gun as a gadget would fix this.

    #8. Sonar wallhacks. - lol, Cmon man, another easy feature. I play on perfectionist so I don't use it which I guess is fine but when I saw it I just face palmed.

    #9. Radar. - Same as wallhacks. I know it's toggleable, but just knowing it's there to use again makes me face palm.

    Those are the main ones. I mainly dislike Blacklist just cause it doesn't feel good to me. It feels a bit like conviction but more stealth/splintercell gameplay.

    I'm going to play through all of Blacklist, but I'm not enjoying it quite like SC1-CT. Kinda just getting through it. Every map in SC1-CT I could just sink my teeth into and enjoy to the fullest. It's the immersion. The only way that Blacklist feels somewhat playable with enjoyment to me is playing on perfectionist, removing the radar, and not buying half the the gadgets/weapons that are available. Even then it's so easy and kinda mindless.
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    I really hope SC7 brings back the immersion, difficulty, and mechanics of SC1-CT. Bring back lockpicking and big open spaced maps! Give us our 5.7 pistol and SC20k signature rifle with that scopesway, airfoil rings, etc. Too much accessibility to gadgets and weapons is not always a good thing. It ruins the immersion of the game. Reduce responsiveness and pacing of the game, bring it back to CT.

    A lot of people will disagree with me and say "well they brought in a lot of quality of life and more weapons to make the game better etc" but a lot of these QOL changes took away from what SC1-CT did the best. You were limited and had to choose wisely how to use what you were given. It's just my opinion, which is admittingly biased towards slow/stealth/immersive gameplay from the originals, but there is just so much fruit that cannot be replaced by that trilogy.


    Hopefully Michael Ironside returns for SC7 which would already add more immersion, no one can compete with his voice acting for SC unfortunately. But if life circumstances prevent this it won't make or break it imo.

    Thanks for reading this far if you have. Hopefully some devs will read this an take it seriously, or gather atleast some valuable feedback with it. Thank you for making SC7. Peace.
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  2. #2
    LuckyBide's Avatar Senior Member
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    I won't go too much into details because I mostly agree with you and also because you kinda summed up everything that I and other fans kept repeating here on this forum for a decade.

    I personally think that Conviction and Blacklist are good games but very bad Splinter Cells. And nothing or no one will change my mind about that, these games lack too many gameplay depth and elements to be considered as SC games.
    The multiple playstyle thing in Blacklist was just a marketing argument to try to sell more copies. They were trying to appeal to an action audience so necessarily they had to dumb down the mechanics of the game. And that's the worst way to make a stealth game accessible. That's why the game felt too easy and cheesy compared to the first games.
    Without mentioning the fact that level design was bad and mostly composed of alternative paths allowing the player to bypass enemies and avoid them, instead of giving the choice to the player among multiple challenging paths with each one having different characteristics.
    About weapons I agree with you, I missed the legendary SC-20K. To me it just makes sense that the weapons and gadgets should be limited. Not only because too many of them unbalance the gameplay but also because Echelon is working on unique high tech weapons and gadgets so they have to focus on quality before quantity.
    And I won't talk about the fast pace, to me it's just an heresy to have that in Splinter Cell. This franchise has originally been about realism, details and hardcore stealth. If some players think that the original slow pace was too "boring" then it means that these games weren't mean for them, or that they didn't understand them. There can be stealth games having a fast pace but to me these games will never reach the depth and fun of a stealth game having a slow pace.

    About Double Agent I know that it has many flaws in its design and its technical realization but I still love this game and I consider it as the last real Splinter Cell game.
    It made evolve the gameplay in a new and fresh direction while staying faithful to the roots of the franchise and it introduced some new interesting ideas and gadgets like the ability to swim, takedowns from a corner, the inverted rappel through the winch, the glass cutter, the ultrasonic emitter, the safe-cracking minigame, the ability to hide under a truck or a desk,... These ideas were refreshing but sadly not well or not enough exploited, and it's sad because some of them like swimming, the winch and the glass cuter still have a great potential.
    But what I loved the most in this game is the trust system with your choices having real consequences, and making the game unique because it adds a very interesting layer of tension to the gameplay. I honestly rarely felt so much tension in a game and it's unique to Double Agent in the series, and even in the entire stealth genre. I think that's what made me love this game so much.

    However if you didn't like this version that much then I would recommend you the other version, that has been released on original Xbox, Gamecube and PS2. The story is largely the same as the PC/360/PS3 version but missions are totally different and feel closer to Chaos Theory in terms of gameplay and sensations : https://youtu.be/T7PUFu_hBjs?t=172

    Regarding the first trilogy, I completely agree with your points. These games were masterpieces and their whole design philosophy was focused on stealth, from gameplay to level design passing by dialogues, story, gadgets, atmosphere,... Eveything encouraged stealth and made it as the logical way to go.
    And I'm glad that you mention games presence (#6) and character physics (#7). Both elements were dumbed down in Conviction and Blacklist in order to match that fast pace. Some players prefer it because they consider that it makes the game smoother and more fluid but I don't think they realize how much it makes the game less deep, ruins immersion and doesn't satisfy at all players who prefer a slower pace.
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  3. #3
    Spot on
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  4. #4
    I wanted to try the ps2 version of Double Agent but I think I need an emulator or something to play on PC and haven't checked it out, but yeah I've seen gameplay and it looks good.
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  5. #5
    LuckyBide's Avatar Senior Member
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    Yeah if you have a decent computer, you can play it on an emulator and it works fine. I don't think we can give emulator names on this forum but you can easily find one by doing a Google research.
    Otherwise if you have a Xbox 360, Xbox One or Xbox Series then the game is backward compatible.
    I highly recommend you to play this version, you won't regret it
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  6. #6
    Welcome (back?)!

    As LuckyBide said, there are many shared sentiments among the classic Splinter Cell crowd. I'm with you on pretty much everything. One thing we do have to consider, though, is accessibility. There will undoubtedly be features that exist to make the game "easier". Not for us, of course, but for those who lack the patience and/or skill for real stealth, but still want to feel like a super-spy. Personally, I'm accepting of those features (these days we kind of have to be...), but as options.

    Conviction and Blacklist both watered-down universally, leaving a player like me wanting. Something like M&E, as you mentioned, is really OP. However, some other players really like it, so it might stay... Technically it's optional, but the level design shoves it in your face, and often doesn't give an alternate stealthy path. And I'm talking meaty stealth gameplay - a vent to bypass everything doesn't count.

    Also, some of the questionable features could be integrated into gadgets that fit into the "classic" arsenal. Instead of M&E, you have a physical tracker that has a small application range, limited uses, is dismissible/ghost-friendly, etc, etc. The "E" part can be ditched entirely... lol Similarly, sonar - limited uses/long recharge, limited range, etc. Maybe encourage their use in specific scenarios (like we've seen with the microphone), but in general, make them meaningful.

    Also, agreed about the old-gen version of DA. Though it has its flaws, it feels much more like a real Splinter Cell game and is definitely worth playing, if you can.
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  7. #7
    Yeah I mean, if there was no other option for ubi to leave things like M+E / sonar / radar etc in the game, it wouldn't be a problem if the gameplay was redesigned like old SC and you could force it all off, and the gameplay didn't feel like it was built around it. Accessibility is only good for sales, not the player. But it seems devs mostly just care about sales so the removal of this stuff is a pipe dream.
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