1. #21
    Originally Posted by LuckyBide Go to original post
    You mean that they could another version of an object like in a distant background for example ?
    Or maybe you're talking about the fact that they use less detailed textures on objects for distant objects in order to better optimize the game ?
    Yep, both. Up close, I like a high-poly mesh with a high-res material (because they look the best and I can get away with it lol). But, farther away, you can go lower and lower. You can also transfer detail from the actual mesh into the material by putting it in the normal map. I do that a lot, too, but usually just for small details, like the little rivets on the hinges of the storage box, for example:

    I could model them, but I'm the only one who would ever notice.

    Alright.
    Yeah I guess it's more realistic for Sam to have his heels on the wall. The only real life example I know about someone doing a split between two walls is Van Damme, but I think we already talked about it here. Anyway his heels are not off the wall:
    I tried to test it by doing a partial (about halfway down) side split - heels raised means actively trying hold the position, fighting against your weight. With heels flat, you're braced. Much easier.
    Of course, none of it's real and I'm definitely overthinking it, but that's what I do. The version in game looks great, and makes Sam that much more impressive, but in reality...I think you'd want your heels down.

    I want to pose a half-split, too...

    Look at those heels! lol

    It could be interesting to try a game acknowledging silhouette recognition, it would be a really hard game to play but still could be fun. Hope you'll succeed !
    Even just as a sequence I think it could be fun. It's a still a puzzle, but requires even more awareness of your surroundings. I like challenges like that.

    That's a perfect place for the cone. With your previous picture of Sam chilling on the desk with the cone right next to him, I'm picturing a whole story: Sam was chilling there, joking with Lambert, he got surprised by the guard and had to quickly hide. The guard saw the cone and surprised to see it here on the desk so he took it. But he doesn't know that he made the biggest mistake of his life because now Sam Fisher has a new objective.
    lol My "Sam" would definitely do anything to get his little buddy back.
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  2. #22
    LuckyBide's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by CoastalGirl Go to original post
    Yep, both. Up close, I like a high-poly mesh with a high-res material (because they look the best and I can get away with it lol). But, farther away, you can go lower and lower. You can also transfer detail from the actual mesh into the material by putting it in the normal map. I do that a lot, too, but usually just for small details, like the little rivets on the hinges of the storage box, for example:

    I could model them, but I'm the only one who would ever notice.
    Alright, that's what I thought. Thanks for the explanation.
    These rivets actually look good and enough, I wouldn't care if rivets would look like this in a modern AAA game. People can easily identify what it is and as you say only the developer who worked on these would know and care.



    Originally Posted by CoastalGirl Go to original post
    I tried to test it by doing a partial (about halfway down) side split - heels raised means actively trying hold the position, fighting against your weight. With heels flat, you're braced. Much easier.
    Of course, none of it's real and I'm definitely overthinking it, but that's what I do. The version in game looks great, and makes Sam that much more impressive, but in reality...I think you'd want your heels down.

    I want to pose a half-split, too...

    Look at those heels! lol
    I agree with you about the heels, but at the end it's the same as the high-res textures thing we talked right above, no player or maybe a very few would notice.
    The half-split looks badass as well, even more than the original split jump. I think that was a nice little addition with the extra jump to reach a higher ledge.
    And yeah those heels are perfectly placed, he could stay up there for hours



    Originally Posted by CoastalGirl Go to original post
    Even just as a sequence I think it could be fun. It's a still a puzzle, but requires even more awareness of your surroundings. I like challenges like that.
    I wonder if the easiest way to play a game having silhouette recognition wouldn't just be to shoot or turn off all the lights. That would be the best and most secure way for players to avoid silhouette recognition. So to make players focus on that puzzle and more aware of their surroundings, I guess they would not be able to shoot or deactivate all lights.
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  3. #23
    Originally Posted by LuckyBide Go to original post
    Alright, that's what I thought. Thanks for the explanation.
    These rivets actually look good and enough, I wouldn't care if rivets would look like this in a modern AAA game. People can easily identify what it is and as you say only the developer who worked on these would know and care.
    For a game, the entire hinge assembly could be part of the texture, but modelling it is more fun for me.
    Since I started doing this work I do notice a lot more in games, though. If I see something while playing, I'll even stop what I'm doing to get a better look at a model... I just did that the other day for a hay bale in Valhalla - full on photo mode and zoomed in because I liked how they did the edges. I'm such a nerd.

    I wonder if the easiest way to play a game having silhouette recognition wouldn't just be to shoot or turn off all the lights. That would be the best and most secure way for players to avoid silhouette recognition. So to make players focus on that puzzle and more aware of their surroundings, I guess they would not be able to shoot or deactivate all lights.
    That's one of the cool things about it, though, because you can do it without using traditional lights. Any brighter surface behind him would work. Windows, distant lit walls, or walls that are lit by inaccessible lights - around a corner, behind objects, etc. It could be really fun to design (and challenging to play, but a good kind of challenging).
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  4. #24
    LuckyBide's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by CoastalGirl Go to original post
    For a game, the entire hinge assembly could be part of the texture, but modelling it is more fun for me.
    Since I started doing this work I do notice a lot more in games, though. If I see something while playing, I'll even stop what I'm doing to get a better look at a model... I just did that the other day for a hay bale in Valhalla - full on photo mode and zoomed in because I liked how they did the edges. I'm such a nerd.
    Haha, that's how you notice that you are a huge nerd about something.
    I know nothing about animations but it's something that really catches my attention when it's done in a good way. I can spend moving the character and make it go around in circles for five minutes just to watch these amazing animations again and again ^^


    Originally Posted by CoastalGirl Go to original post
    That's one of the cool things about it, though, because you can do it without using traditional lights. Any brighter surface behind him would work. Windows, distant lit walls, or walls that are lit by inaccessible lights - around a corner, behind objects, etc. It could be really fun to design (and challenging to play, but a good kind of challenging).
    That's true, any surface could betray the silhouette.
    It would indeed be a very challenging gameplay to design. And to adjust from which "amount of light" NPCs would notice the silhouette and then recognize that it is a human silhouette. And which tools to give to players so they can have a direct visualization of their surroundings, and to avoid frustration from being constantly detected.
    I think a good way to start designing that game would be to do a prototype in a corridor with one guard and the player embodying.... a traffic cone
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  5. #25
    Originally Posted by LuckyBide Go to original post
    Haha, that's how you notice that you are a huge nerd about something.
    I know nothing about animations but it's something that really catches my attention when it's done in a good way. I can spend moving the character and make it go around in circles for five minutes just to watch these amazing animations again and again ^^
    I did that with the dive animation in Double Agent. I found a ledge in Okhotsk where it worked and did it over and over. It was a pretty simple animation but it looked cool... lol

    That's true, any surface could betray the silhouette.
    It would indeed be a very challenging gameplay to design. And to adjust from which "amount of light" NPCs would notice the silhouette and then recognize that it is a human silhouette. And which tools to give to players so they can have a direct visualization of their surroundings, and to avoid frustration from being constantly detected.
    I think a good way to start designing that game would be to do a prototype in a corridor with one guard and the player embodying.... a traffic cone
    I'll try it! Initially it won't actually function, but I'll set up a few scenarios. Part of the fun will be figuring out how to fake the AI, and keep it playable.
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  6. #26
    LuckyBide's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by CoastalGirl Go to original post
    I did that with the dive animation in Double Agent. I found a ledge in Okhotsk where it worked and did it over and over. It was a pretty simple animation but it looked cool... lol
    I just love seeing Sam walking very slowly in that game, being able to control very precisely his leg movements is like hypnotic for me, haha.
    Animations in Double Agent and especially water ones are great. They added so many animations in that game and thinking that they handcrafted them is even more amazing because they all look impressive while being useful for gameplay.



    Originally Posted by CoastalGirl Go to original post
    I'll try it! Initially it won't actually function, but I'll set up a few scenarios. Part of the fun will be figuring out how to fake the AI, and keep it playable.
    Oh sure step by step you will add elements and improve the prototype until it get fully playable and credible, but most importantly fun to play. And I hope we'll be able to able building that prototype
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  7. #27
    Originally Posted by LuckyBide Go to original post
    I just love seeing Sam walking very slowly in that game, being able to control very precisely his leg movements is like hypnotic for me, haha.
    Animations in Double Agent and especially water ones are great. They added so many animations in that game and thinking that they handcrafted them is even more amazing because they all look impressive while being useful for gameplay.
    That's true. While I don't really do kills, the under-the-ice one was impressive, and unique.

    Oh sure step by step you will add elements and improve the prototype until it get fully playable and credible, but most importantly fun to play. And I hope we'll be able to able building that prototype
    I'm still really intimidated by the programming side, but this feels approachable...baby steps. lol I'll see what I can do.
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  8. #28
    LuckyBide's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by CoastalGirl Go to original post
    That's true. While I don't really do kills, the under-the-ice one was impressive, and unique.
    Yeah, I love that one too. I remember playing the game without watching any trailer before that so all animations were new to me. And that under-the-ice animation and the inverted rappel in the meeting room in Kinshasa really blown me away when I saw them for the first time. I thought they were really cool and badass while being faithful to Splinter Cell's spirit.


    Originally Posted by CoastalGirl Go to original post
    I'm still really intimidated by the programming side, but this feels approachable...baby steps. lol I'll see what I can do.
    Same, I feel I would never fully understand programming. I always thought about taking online classes to at learn the basics but I have always postponed it.
    I'm sure you'll make it, slowly but surely
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