I understand your concerns about the collaboration model and many bad practices can indeed derive from it.Originally Posted by generalbrown02 Go to original post
Though for Hitman I think that people didn't accept the fact that a rich AAA studio like Square Enix could sell an episodic game, especially in a franchise that used to sell traditional complete games.
And what about demos ? We used to have tons of them back then, and they were a way for studios to have a first feedback and tweak or modify some gameplay elements, or even remove some.
There would be nothing wrong to have a demo for this remake, even on one level. We would see the direction the team wants to take and we would give them productive feedback.
And once again giving some feedback to a development team is not an "approval", the team will always have the final decision.
Originally Posted by NoviceGuy Go to original post
I would say that we are more or less understanding each other. I don't take the letter to be a "demand". I think it's well intended and there is valuable information in it. I disagree with wanting a community collaboration, but like you I have no disrespect in that opinion for the people who support that idea.
I don't think I have the role or luxury to "trust" Ubisoft to make this game right, they either will or won't. Their recent track record on Splinter Cell (especially), but even games like Ghost Recon, Rainbow Six, AC (to a lesser degree) or Watchdogs, suggests that they have a tendency to pander to social politics in order to try and guess what people want rather than having the independent courage to just make a game because they have a great idea/concept. My response to that has been, and will continue with Splinter Cell, to participate as in my true role as a consumer. I will vote with my dollars. I'm encouraged enough to say that I would be willing to buy this game if it lives up to what has most recently been promised. I have great memories with the first entries into this franchise, and would love to pick up where those experiences ended. But I am also happy enough with everything else in life and in the market to spend my money elsewhere if this game starts to go down the old tired paths of Conviction and Blacklist.
I've probably mentioned this before in the years of conversation. One vivid memory of my experience with Splinter Cell was walking into a gamestop years ago and seeing some guy playing Chaos Theory on the demo machine. I had played and loved SAR and PT. I had no idea a new game was out. All I did was ask "what game is that", and he said "it's the new Splinter Cell". That was it, that was all the advertising I needed, I walked over bought the game and weekend was planned. Splinter Cell used to have that place for me, today it doesn't. I love the memories, and would love to have the product back in that place for me. I am very interested, and may be a day two buyer...and maybe in the future it'll be day one for the next game? But, that's my role, to buy or withhold my money.
Originally Posted by LuckyBide Go to original post
I think demos could work. If I made a suggestion on that it would be that they have a cost, and that the feedback was mostly under the hood observation. But, yes, I think demos are more in line with the kind of things that generate useful consumer feedback data.
I understand that you aren't being demanding, and that the approval isn't official. But, that's how people behave. The developers will have a tendency to either reject the community feedback and participate only as a matter of form to act as though they are in good faith, or to become overly reliant on it. I don't think you are trying to be a dictator in this, I'm just trying to envision how this whole thing would look from 30,000 feet.
Yeah, I think we understand one another. At the end of the day, we want a Splinter Cell that is on par, if not better, than the original games.Originally Posted by generalbrown02 Go to original post
I certainly don't want Ubisoft to be pandering to all of the social justice politics and placing them into the remake. That is certainly a concern that I know others also share.
It doesn't help that they just announced a 'Diversity & Inclusion Director' last week.
https://montreal.ubisoft.com/en/welc...adian-studios/
It's true that we should vote with our money in order to show Ubisoft if we're invested.
In fact, I haven't bought a new Ubisoft game in years. This franchise is the only thing that's keeping me interested in Ubisoft since they've ruined Ghost Recon and Rainbow Six to the point where it's unlikely that they'll ever return to their respective original roots. Splinter Cell still has a glimmer of hope - no matter how small it is.
It would be ideal if Ubisoft Toronto could release a demo. The original games did it, so it wouldn't hurt the remake to do the same.
The issue would likely be on the cost of making a demo, so there's that to address.
We completely agreeOriginally Posted by NoviceGuy Go to original post
I understand. I think it's just a bit different here because of the history of the series, and what resulted from various changes in direction. The "brand" is in a somewhat fragile state at this point, and I'd like the opportunity to show continuous support (which it needs, IMO).Originally Posted by generalbrown02 Go to original post
I wouldn't worry too much about that - many devs work on a variety of projects. It doesn't mean he doesn't like/understand stealth, and I wouldn't hold it against him. At least they're all talking positively about the early SCs. That's definitely a step in the right direction.Originally Posted by NoviceGuy Go to original post
I agree on all of those points - The community has a place and function, we are actually participating in that right now. It's just not to be directly involved in the development. Not as an approval committee, some kind of adjunct quality control, or even as a type of consultant. Our job is to talk among ourselves, and discuss our opinions here. I promise you, with some experience going to market, Ubisoft pays attention to the discussions here. Maybe not to the degree that we "want", but they are not ignoring these conversations. So, that's our role, simply to give Ubisoft a window into some fan discussion.Originally Posted by CoastalGirl Go to original post
Oh, I understand that. I'm not saying that they don't appreciate/understand stealth or anything like that.Originally Posted by CoastalGirl Go to original post
It's more so from an experience perspective. A stealth game seems to be an uncharted territory for a lot of these developers in Toronto. That's why I'm a little concern since they're doing a remake of the original - a lot of things could go wrong.
I understand that demos cost money but after all it would make sense to have one for Splinter Cell since it's been a dormant franchise for so long. And after all we remember those demos of Conviction and Blacklist at E3 presentations. They could show the first glimpses of the game at E3 2023 or later and then release a demo right behind.Originally Posted by generalbrown02 Go to original post
I understand your concerns, I know players feedback can be either good or bad for a project. But as I already said this project is lead by veteran developers so I think they know how to interpret fan requests and what to take and not take.
Anyway I just wrote a small "update" around the letter and that idea of collaboration. Let me know what you think, if it's a good idea, if there are things to modify or to delete.
Dear developers of the Splinter Cell remake,
The announcement made on December 15th, 2021 regarding the Splinter Cell remake has been a surprise that gave hope to many fans. After reading your interview on the Ubisoft blog post, the reactions on the Splinter Cell subreddit and the official forum has been overwhelmingly positive. And we are glad that you decided to not make an open-world, this evacuates one of our numerous fears.
Though most of us remain cautious and will wait to see gameplay to judge if this remake is heading in a way that will be respectful of the original game, satisfy both long-time fans while being accessible and appealing to a newer audience.
This is the reason why we are writing you this letter. We would love you to consider one of our requests regarding a close collaboration between developers and fans. Some other videogame studios made that choice recently and what IO Interactive did with Hitman fans in 2016 while building a solid base for the future of the franchise is one successful example. Ironically, that request already was in an open letter written by us and published a few weeks ago. This letter is available here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...TFF7IqT7zm5wM/
So far that letter collected more than 400 signatures from fans and we were planning to collect more before sending it to Ubisoft in a few weeks or months. Now, the announcement of the remake made the letter a bit unsuitable but its main ideas remain valid, and the most important of them is about that collaboration.
Obviously, the form that this collaboration would take would be at your discretion. It could be through the form of an active discussion between you and us, or anything that you consider to be the most appropriate. By the way another AAA studio, EA Motive, decided to create a few months ago a community council involving fans to help build the Dead Space remake.
We are aware that the game is still at a very early stage of development and that the team is still in the process of being built. Therefore you may think that our request is premature but we estimate that it is the right time for us to do this request, before the game development enters in full production.
To end, we want to assure you that we don’t want to dictate you anything. We won't come with a specific list of demands, we are open to constructive and positive discussions and want the future team to have and keep total creative freedom on the project.
We welcome you in the Splinter Cell world and we wish you the best in this long journey !
Thank you.
Splinter Cell fans from the official Ubisoft forum.
Find us here : https://forums.ubisoft.com/forumdisp...Cell-Blacklist