Frontline: the wrong game at the wrong time. | Forums

[Meridian2251]

Sometimes you just have to put your face in your hands and ask "why". Full disclosure first, I have play tested Frontline, and have had time to digest and reflect on it for a while. I can't discuss gameplay features, unless they are shown in video, but these are my thoughts.

• The game should not be a "BR type" game. whether it is a derivative or not, a true BR game or not, matters less than if it is a true GR game. The spec ops team on a mission is an underpinning characteristic of the whole belief system that lets you play out that fantasy in GR. Dozens of spec op teams competing for an extraction is a fundamentally alien concept in GR, they'd all talk to each other and agree to walk out together for a start. Other games that don't pitch themselves as authentic can get away with it, but sorry, Frontline, you can't have it both ways.
• The third person view is a key differentiator between GR and other shooters. Far too much is made of the "realistic seeing" mechanics and not enough of the "realistic behaviour" mechanics that emerge when situational awareness is enhanced. Teamwork and tactics improve in TPS games because intel and communications are more important than reactive shooting. Thinking is more important than thumbs in a TPS game in my opinion, but I know many others prefer FPS games; why not have separate servers to cater for both preferences?
• It should not be a free to play game I think, because the progression based game model that usually goes hand in hand with the free to play sales model runs counter to the GR concept of highly trained and well equipped Ghosts.

• It should not have taken centre stage from the PvE content that Motherland will bring in today's 20th Anniversary announcement. Even if it was the PvP that all the PvP fans wanted, it would still have annoyed the PvE community to see so little. Hopefully this will be rectified over the coming weeks.
• The reception (expected by me) has shattered any confidence the community had left. After the work done to turn around Breakpoint and to fix it into to something more like the GR the community wanted, it feels as if we have gone back 2 years instead of celebrating 20.

It is what it is, though. It is not the next GR game, it is that free to play spin off that Heartland is to the Division, but wrong game, wrong time.

Wish everyone spoke in the same manner as you Blue. I believe Ubisoft Paris is working on a new game. Let it be just be single player/co op and let Frontlines be for PvP players. This day is the worst I’ve seen from the community. Frontlines is nothing compared to fighting aliens or a punk rock themed Tom Clancy game. The devs promised tactical freedom which is what interests me the most. This is not Ubisoft Paris so they don’t deserve the hate.

[xxFratosxx]

The third person view is a key differentiator between GR and other shooters. Far too much is made of the "realistic seeing" mechanics and not enough of the "realistic behaviour" mechanics that emerge when situational awareness is enhanced.

Blue I'm just lost for words man but I can only imagine how you felt when you ran into this. You always seem to be the cheerful type to show passion for the franchise and probably have the biggest smile from the entire Delta Company. Hearing things you mentioned even to some how try to give feedback on how best frontlines can be is appreciated. I'm sure you asked for Frontlines to have a 3rd person view option.

So I can only tell you I see beyond what you typed man and I can tell this hurt you as well as the rest of us. As for me I wasn't excited for the anniversary but the chat was probably the best part by communicating with other Ghost. When I told my wife the reveal was coming today she was left in disappointment after what she seen. She prefer third person for one and she literally thought this was Cod Warzone. Huge turn-off but she had a disappointed look on her face it pretty much was the same reaction others had.

Does Ubisoft do these things to make us upset. Are we being used to fund silly projects. Is they tired of us for being picky on what our Ghost look like to hide things in first person and not being seen in 3rd person. Instead of Ubisoft making innovation they cutting pages from other studios. It's sad but hey best to luck with ubi. They gonna need it.

[Virtual-Chris]

Thanks for sharing your insights. I think there’s been a bit of an over-reaction - an assumption that this new game somehow implied the end of the road for PvE. I didn’t get that impression, but it certainly would have helped to at least share that PvE has a future. It must be tough for you. It would be interesting to know how your and Deltas relationship is with Ubisoft after this.

[Ice-Quinn]

It’s a military-light Fortnite, riding on Ghost Recon’s brand.

It’s no more Tom Clancy’s GR, than a bottle of bleach is whisky, cause it’s got a label glued to it and a logo that reads “Keep Walking” (Away, True Fans).

[AI BLUEFOX]

The relationship is pretty similar for me @Chris. The Devs make decisions and I tell them what I think, and as I've said many times before they listen to and consider what is said, but there are many other factors that are also considered. I don't expect everything I ask for to be implemented just that it be listened to and I understand the difference between being ignored and being over ruled.

The direction of Frontline is as disappointing to me as a PvP player as the lack of AI team commands is as a PvE player; so I'm very used to this conflict with the Dev team. What I wish would happen is the whole community had a chance to really influence the direction much, much earlier in the process. Frontline should have been debated and discussed with the community two years ago before too much effort went into making key decisions irreversible. It's the timing of the feedback process that I have the biggest issue with, and Frontline has followed the same path as Breakpoint. This "Ta-da!" approach to game reveals is not working for me.

[Steven527]

This "Ta-da!" approach to game reveals is not working for Ubi.

Another way to look at it.

[ApexMandalorian]

The relationship is pretty similar for me @Chris. The Devs make decisions and I tell them what I think, and as I've said many times before they listen to and consider what is said, but there are many other factors that are also considered. I don't expect everything I ask for to be implemented just that it be listened to and I understand the difference between being ignored and being over ruled.

The direction of Frontline is as disappointing to me as a PvP player as the lack of AI team commands is as a PvE player; so I'm very used to this conflict with the Dev team. What I wish would happen is the whole community had a chance to really influence the direction much, much earlier in the process. Frontline should have been debated and discussed with the community two years ago before too much effort went into making key decisions irreversible. It's the timing of the feedback process that I have the biggest issue with, and Frontline has followed the same path as Breakpoint. This "Ta-da!" approach to game reveals is not working for me.

What's most sad to me is the seeming obliviousness of the Community Team to our likely reaction to this. UbiT00n was over on Reddit saying things like this:

You'll have to watch to find out
**squeals in excitement**

She's seen enough of our discussions here and on Reddit to have expected the overwhelming negative reaction to the stream. I don't understand why she even made an attempt to generate hype for this. And the repeated mention of surprises and gift emotes is baffling because 1) we've kinda made it clear that the whole radio silence > "soon" > surprise info dump right before an update to create a "ta-da" moment just doesn't have the impact they think it has, and 2) again, she had to know there would be a negative reaction to this stream. I just don't understand why Ubisoft leadership is so out-of-touch and I don't understand how the Community Team seems equally out-of-touch.

[stdape]

WTF!! Another Battle Royale Title obviously UBI has not listened at all, or certainly taken no notice. PVP is rubbish anyway, I certainly will not be getting this Title. Never watched the Video got to sign In Too YouTube lol? But from what I make out, OP Motherland is being released soon, but no real update on it, the future looks Bleak. UBITOON was saying last week about how excited she was about this, why??
This is going to upset a lot of players, why did they even think we wanted a PVP Game?!
If they got any care left Release a Mission Editor for Breakpoint, let the real Designers like Virtual-Chris, show how to Design.

[fastastoast]

Sometimes you just have to put your face in your hands and ask "why". Full disclosure first, I have play tested Frontline, and have had time to digest and reflect on it for a while. I can't discuss gameplay features, unless they are shown in video, but these are my thoughts.

• The game should not be a "BR type" game. whether it is a derivative or not, a true BR game or not, matters less than if it is a true GR game. The spec ops team on a mission is an underpinning characteristic of the whole belief system that lets you play out that fantasy in GR. Dozens of spec op teams competing for an extraction is a fundamentally alien concept in GR, they'd all talk to each other and agree to walk out together for a start. Other games that don't pitch themselves as authentic can get away with it, but sorry, Frontline, you can't have it both ways.
• The third person view is a key differentiator between GR and other shooters. Far too much is made of the "realistic seeing" mechanics and not enough of the "realistic behaviour" mechanics that emerge when situational awareness is enhanced. Teamwork and tactics improve in TPS games because intel and communications are more important than reactive shooting. Thinking is more important than thumbs in a TPS game in my opinion, but I know many others prefer FPS games; why not have separate servers to cater for both preferences?
• It should not be a free to play game I think, because the progression based game model that usually goes hand in hand with the free to play sales model runs counter to the GR concept of highly trained and well equipped Ghosts.

• It should not have taken centre stage from the PvE content that Motherland will bring in today's 20th Anniversary announcement. Even if it was the PvP that all the PvP fans wanted, it would still have annoyed the PvE community to see so little. Hopefully this will be rectified over the coming weeks.
• The reception (expected by me) has shattered any confidence the community had left. After the work done to turn around Breakpoint and to fix it into to something more like the GR the community wanted, it feels as if we have gone back 2 years instead of celebrating 20.

It is what it is, though. It is not the next GR game, it is that free to play spin off that Heartland is to the Division, but wrong game, wrong time.

This is a great post, AL. But you've probably had a while to consider it.. also, shouldn't we be calling you greyfox with that sexy hair, that was the highlight of the steam for me...

[Hugo-FOU]

The fact that it’s 1st person and you drop metal barricades and sniper towers from the sky is all we need to know about who is calling the shots for this. I am truly dumbfounded that each and every Ubisoft studio is this f&@ckn lost.

Not only has paris now shat the bed with their looter shooter plant picking robot shooting ghost recon, but Bucharest had joined the party with their half a$$d drop metal barricades and turrets from the sky fortnite ghost recon.

Then we have the devs creating siege, with their alien extravaganza, and you have to question how the hell is anyone in Ubisoft management not questioning what the flick is going on with all these decisions being made for their key franchises?

There’s nothing more frustrating than realizing Ubisoft is trying to capture an audience that doesn’t exist while alienating the audience they already have.

I can wait to play xdefiant and then some frontline - something no one will ever say.

I’m glad I’m not the only one to see the Fortnite comparison. I also feel like this company is totally lost. They seem hell bent on following this direction, so at this point it seems the best we can hope for is that their share prices tank even further, they get in serious financial difficulties and end up selling the franchise.