🛈 Announcement
Greetings! Trackmania forums are now archived and accessible in read-only mode, please go to the new platform to discuss the game.
  1. #1

    The trophy system needs a rework

    Hello,

    We were discussing the stale trophy system in the discord server and I tought that: "a simple solution that for the trophy problem, although it will NOT get rid of the unfun aspect of it, is to simply make an additional panel with all decayed trophies organized by year (seasons in other games). E.g., Once a trophy that is shown in the actual Trophy tab (future Current Trophies) expires, it goes to All Trophies/Overall Trophies/Past Trophies in the year it was made. I think it s a simple solution and it accomplishes so much. A more FUN way to do this is to add badges, but I see that Nadeo opposes rewards in any way. Except Marc, I heard of no player to play for trophies. You either go for WR, events or TMGL. There s no room for anything else."

    I do not know if this is the best solution, so please, you, 3 readers of the TM forum, come and express your solution to the trophy problem.

    Thanks!

    Btw, you have bots in the forum that post in threads.

    L.E.: Why do I consider that the current trophy system is problematic? I should have added this to the main post, but mainly because it doesn t reward the player in any way. In addition to that, trophies you worked hard for going away after a year without any way of showing your achievements is anti fun. The trophy system should encourage the player to play more or/and harder and that can t be done if there are no rewards (badges, titles, 1 month of club/year if you are in top 1000 at the end of this Trophy Year/Season, you name it). Beside being the condition upon your position on the leaderboard is determined, it should also be a stimulus.

    All people should hunt for trophies, not just 2 individuals. You might say that everybody is "hunting" for trophies if they are playing the game and you d be correct, but it would more of a sophism than anything. In other words, people are not hunting for trophies, but they are playing the game. Having a reason to hunt for trophies would mean better players, more fun, more everything.

    Alongside the trophy system, being hand in hand, the trophy intervals should be reworked as well and their allocated points. Top 1000, top 100 is too big of a gap. Top 10, top 1 is too big of a gap. It s not fun if there is no reason to play. It s not worth getting better if there is no reason to play.

    For this last paragraph, you might want to say "You can play for events. You can try to win a spot in TMGL. You can try to WR every totd." Yes, we all are trying that, but if we are realistic, there are, I would estimate, 50 people that can realistically aim that high.

    For example, I could get top 250 totd everyday, but why would I? I know that I cannot achieve top 100, unless I put in an amount of time that I do not have. That makes me stop at around top 700 everyday, although I could play a little bit more and try a little bit harder. That s another stimulus that would make the game better in my opinion.

    I am not suggesting making decisions that would benefit the "casuals," but the contrary. By introducing a better, new, rewarding trophy system, everybody can have more fun.
     2 people found this helpful

  2. #2
    I agree, especially with the last few notes. The gaps in the discrete rating system are too large, and I would prefer to have the trophies distributed in a way that is similar to the distribution of points in the campaign based on a position on a map.
     1 people found this helpful

  3. #3
    Montetatil's Avatar Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2020
    Location
    Isere, france
    Posts
    121
    Originally Posted by BourbonKid3000 Go to original post
    I agree, especially with the last few notes. The gaps in the discrete rating system are too large, and I would prefer to have the trophies distributed in a way that is similar to the distribution of points in the campaign based on a position on a map.
    maybe something like this below may be more convenient:

    Player Trophy to earn = race coefficient / player race position
    as a result, the last one will get zero trophy and the best one the maximum allowed by the race coefficient

    regarding COTD, the race coefficient could vary depending of seed number (the better the higher) and could follow a similar rule, like
    race coefficient = player seedNr X COTD Coefficient
    or, if an exponential growth of points is desired:
    race coefficient = exp( player seedNr X COTD coefficient )



    to replace with the actual discrete ranking system (and to upgrade in case of need)
     1 people found this helpful

  4. #4
    Fowst2010's Avatar Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    238
    Originally Posted by xYoYoKid Go to original post
    so please, you, 3 readers of the TM forum, come and express your solution to the trophy problem.
    Hey there fellow forum reader

    First of all, I'd like to question, if we need a trophy system rework from the ground like Montetatil suggested, or if adding new bonus trophies would be enough.
    The only thing I really dislike about the trophy system, is that it benefits people, who either drive a perfect lap or DNF.
    You don't get any points if you beat a player who DNFs, so if I for example drive a strong time on the first attempt, some of the people will not finish, unless they're first, so they are not "feeding" me trophies.
    It happened so often that I was with 4 other silver 3 players and 1 gold, and 1/5 of them finishes, usually beating me, the others DNF. I'm forever 2nd, getting 400 trophies and a wet fart, even though I beat them. They are driving the whole time.

    I'd like to see that changed and suggest, that DNF players should also give points, when you beat them. You should get a "spare round" upon joining, which means if you DNF nobody gets any points from you, as it is. However this cannot be used again by the same player on the same server for 30 min, to prevent exploiting the spare round.
    You can earn normal points if you finish, and give normal points.
    Once the map changes however, they can give 50-100% of the regular points to everyone above them, if they DNF. 10% more for each consecutive DNF up to a maximum of 100%.
    Anyone who finishes any map online could get a 10-50 point trophy on top, regardless of position.

    So the meta would change to "getting a somewhat good run", rather than "send it and pray you get 1st, or DNF and deny the others their points".
    I feel like I'm forced to snipe, but when I snipe they rage quit, when I drive a good run early they DNF and deny my points either way.
    Some of those players win 4 or 5 maps against me, then I win one and they quit...
    But that's maybe a problem in the community.

    Actually the first thing I came up with, was matchmaking bonuses. Yes we get a matchmaking score, but we could also get incrementally better trophies for reaching higher ranks. It would not hurt.
    Trackmaster could get a 10m trophy, Master gets a 1m trophy, Gold gets a 100k trophy, silver gets a 10k trophy and bronze gets a 1k trophy.
    On top of that, you could reward small trophies during the rounds (first 1k, second 500, third 200, fourth 50, fifth 20, last 10, DNF 0)

    Next, there's the author medal speedrun, I think the first on each map to beat the author medal should get a 10k or 100k trophy and the first who beat all of them gets a 10M trophy.
    The only Issue I see here is reliably synchronizing who is first. There could also be smaller trophies in the first week for beating author medals in general. (1k per map, 50k for all)

    Then there's royal, you don't get anything for playing that at the moment, except royal crowns. They could either add a trophy reward to the different crowns, say 1k for silver, 10k for gold etc., or just give the players in the top 3 some rewards, like first team gets 1k, second 500, third gets 200 in trophies.

    Then there's a minor thing, in arcade online campaign, I get bronze trophies for beating other silver and even gold players. Why?
    Shouldn't we get at least a silver trophy (1k) for beating a silver 3 or a gold (10k) for beating a gold player on top of all the other trophies?
    I get 1k for beating a gold player, and in total it's barely more than I would get for beating silver 3. (that's 500?)
    I'd like to see the trophies on regular servers increased. When I only get around 25 other silver and bronze opponents, I sometimes only get 300-600 trophies for a win. I grinded that and did the math, no way i can get into top 1k without committing to a 3 year subscription.

    It seems the only way to get a lot of trophies consistently is to play COTD every day, which isn't available to free players. I was inches away from buying a 3 year subscription, but in hindsight I'm glad I was hesitant, when I discovered more and more flaws in the game and the cheating scandal happened my motivation to play has died down...So many top times cheated. Maybe I need to lower my expectations or make a better game myself^^

    I'll probably check out the new season for 2-4 weeks and have a blast, then move on to other games again.
     1 people found this helpful

  5. #5
    I will not address the trophy system changes you stated, because I made this topic for us, the players, to write our opinion about the problems/solutions we see with/for the current version of this system, so Nadeo can see there is clearly a problem with it and do something about it.

    "It seems the only way to get a lot of trophies consistently is to play COTD every day, which isn't available to free players. I was inches away from buying a 3 year subscription, but in hindsight I'm glad I was hesitant, when I discovered more and more flaws in the game..."

    In my opinion, TOTD/COTD is the best thing this game has and I believe that you are missing out. Maybe give it a chance and your love for the game might blossom again.

    That being said, these flaws that we are seeing are more or less Quality of Life stuff that don t impact the gameplay at its core. Y, it would be nice to have a better trophy system and a better menu and so on, but at the end of the day, the gameplay revolves around being faster than your peers. The only real problem that I see is the mistreating of the mappers by not uploading their updated maps and by not rewarding them in any way (discord badges, in game badges/titles, 1 month of club or something).

    L.E.: It would also be nice to have the new versions TESTED by beta testers or have preasons. If they would just play League of Legends for 1 month, they would understand how good their updates cycle is and maybe they would get inspired by it.

    "...and the cheating scandal happened my motivation to play has died down...So many top times cheated. Maybe I need to lower my expectations or make a better game myself^^"

    It amazed me that Nadeo didn t have an anticheat or a way to detect scripts for 10 years, but at least it finally happened. There were not that many, let s be fair, Riolu being (allegedly, because Nadeo didn t officially confirm anything) the most impactful. Don t let this affect your passion for the game. If you ever make your game tho, DM me.


    I appreciate your in depth reply and I hope you ll give TOTD/COTD a chance. I promise you ll love it. It s so much fun.

    L.E. 2: You should also join the discord channel if you are not already in. Most of the charm of Trackmania comes from the community. Unlike this dead desert of a forum, the discord is really active.