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  1. #1

    Why everybody hates that chain bash is GBable?

    Talking about the new hero.
    BP's chain bash also should be GBable.
    Warden, Conq both high tier heroes and both have bashes that can be GBable. Why with BP it has to be different.
    I liked the aspect where you can punish the bash with a GB.

    Make chain links 200ms, increase his hitboxes, reduce the recovery of his bash opener, increase the speed of the light coming from his stance , but his chain bash should stay the same.

    Mayve some people will say "but then it would be useless". No.
    1)The heavy damage compensates for any risk the bash offers and offers more mix potential (feint into GB, light, bash, etc.). Rely more on the heavy.
    2)In both heroes, BP and kyoshin, the light after the bash is not really a finisher, since they can chain into their special stance, which can lead instantly to an unblockable,

    Keep it in the game, It's good. Buff the rest.
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  2. #2
    Originally Posted by Tio_Croc Go to original post
    Talking about the new hero.
    BP's chain bash also should be GBable.
    Warden, Conq both high tier heroes and both have bashes that can be GBable. Why with BP it has to be different.
    I liked the aspect where you can punish the bash with a GB.

    Make chain links 200ms, increase his hitboxes, reduce the recovery of his bash opener, increase the speed of the light coming from his stance , but his chain bash should stay the same.

    Mayve some people will say "but then it would be useless". No.
    1)The heavy damage compensates for any risk the bash offers and offers more mix potential (feint into GB, light, bash, etc.). Rely more on the heavy.
    2)In both heroes, BP and kyoshin, the light after the bash is not really a finisher, since they can chain into their special stance, which can lead instantly to an unblockable,

    Keep it in the game, It's good. Buff the rest.
    It's not high enough reward to warrant being gb'able. Conqs bash isn't, warlords isn't. All the slightly slower ones aren't either. I do think it needs another 100ms recovery for dodge attacks landing. But it shouldn't be gb'able still.
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  3. #3
    Originally Posted by deathtocakl Go to original post
    It's not high enough reward to warrant being gb'able. Conqs bash isn't, warlords isn't. All the slightly slower ones aren't either. I do think it needs another 100ms recovery for dodge attacks landing. But it shouldn't be gb'able still.
    You have to consider the whole mixup. The bash is not enough, but the bash alongside a 27+ damage undodgeble is enough. Can literally melt your HP in 2 bad reads. That is why even the lvl 1 variable bash is GBable, and that is why BP should be GBable just like Shaolin and the Kyoshin dude.
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  4. #4
    Originally Posted by Tio_Croc Go to original post
    You have to consider the whole mixup. The bash is not enough, but the bash alongside a 27+ damage undodgeble is enough. Can literally melt your HP in 2 bad reads. That is why even the lvl 1 variable bash is GBable, and that is why BP should be GBable just like Shaolin and the Kyoshin dude.
    It is not a mixup. You can (with enough practice). React to the bash and by extension the heavy.

    The bash itself is "low risk, low reward". Wardens bash, and by extension all the other variable bashes are high risk high reward.

    They at a minimum leave you in frame advantage when you hit, and 3 out of 4 lead back into the mixup. Which is a proper mixup by the way.

    Priors bash leaves him at frame disadvantage and ends his chain. Minus his unblockable I guess.

    It should always be punished by dodge attacks, but not guardbreaks.
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  5. #5
    Adding onto that. Kyoshins bashes should not be gb'able. They currently are. But even after they fix his chain link timing, they should not be gb'able.
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  6. #6
    Originally Posted by deathtocakl Go to original post
    It is not a mixup. You can (with enough practice). React to the bash and by extension the heavy.
    Do you know people who can react to that? Prob people who can do it are the same who can react to parry flashes, meaning they are 0.00001% of the PC player base. They are the exeption not the rule. That is why BP is still top tier, and his bash thing and heavy is still a mixup.

    The bash itself is "low risk, low reward". Wardens bash, and by extension all the other variable bashes are high risk high reward.
    lvl 1 bash guarantees light for 15 damage and can be GB'd. High risk low reward, to compensate for the fully charged one.

    They at a minimum leave you in frame advantage when you hit, and 3 out of 4 lead back into the mixup. Which is a proper mixup by the way.
    Not if you chain to unblockable, that half of the time trade with lights.

    Priors bash leaves him at frame disadvantage and ends his chain. Minus his unblockable I guess.
    If he can still chain to something, it means the chain hasn't ended.

    It should always be punished by dodge attacks, but not guardbreaks.
    My opinion is that it should, based on variable bashes. The undodgeble/bash mix up has 2 main options, the heavy which can be onyl punished with a parry (BP can flip deflects so no) with 12 damage, and the bahs that can be punished with a 16 damage dodge. In variable bashes, lvl deals 15, punished with GB, lvl 3 deals 27, punished with GB. Unblockable/bahs would have an option that can be punished, and another that can be punished with low damage, which is still strong. BP would be less braindead since players would actually need to mix up relying on his heavy.

    But everyone is entitles of their own opinion. BP has been overtuned for yearss, with broken unblockanble unparriable option select, broken backstep crushing counter, too high damaging full block that counters even bashes, strong mix up that can only be punished with low damage (if they perform a dodge really early otherwise it's getting blocked). Something has to be done about that hero.
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  7. #7
    The problem with BP's chain bash isn't that it's not punishable with a GB. It's that eating a light attack prevents dodge attacks from being able to consistently punish the bash on the right read. In Kyoshin's case all they need to do is increase the chain link time (if they haven't already) and lower the recovery for his bash so he can CGB. Every other recovery it currently has can stay.
     1 people found this helpful
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  8. #8
    Originally Posted by Tio_Croc Go to original post
    My opinion is that it should, based on variable bashes. The undodgeble/bash mix up has 2 main options, the heavy which can be onyl punished with a parry (BP can flip deflects so no) with 12 damage, and the bahs that can be punished with a 16 damage dodge. In variable bashes, lvl deals 15, punished with GB, lvl 3 deals 27, punished with GB. Unblockable/bahs would have an option that can be punished, and another that can be punished with low damage, which is still strong. BP would be less braindead since players would actually need to mix up relying on his heavy.

    But everyone is entitles of their own opinion. BP has been overtuned for yearss, with broken unblockanble unparriable option select, broken backstep crushing counter, too high damaging full block that counters even bashes, strong mix up that can only be punished with low damage (if they perform a dodge really early otherwise it's getting blocked). Something has to be done about that hero.
    The only difference between BP and conq recovery is 100ms. You only get the gb on conq if you guess and dodge early. If it's on reaction, you do not get a gb. You literally don't get a gb on any neutral bash that isn't variable without guessing. So you want BP's to just be worse because you don't like him. Doesn't make sense to me. And I don't even like BP.
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  9. #9
    Originally Posted by deathtocakl Go to original post
    The only difference between BP and conq recovery is 100ms. You only get the gb on conq if you guess and dodge early. If it's on reaction, you do not get a gb. You literally don't get a gb on any neutral bash that isn't variable without guessing. So you want BP's to just be worse because you don't like him. Doesn't make sense to me. And I don't even like BP.
    you can GB his chain bash. it's 700ms anyone can react to that. if he follows with a light you can parry.

    BP and conq are overtuned and need rebalancements/nerfs. I think the game would be better in that way, but that's just my opinion. Like they did with Warden's back dodge bash.
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  10. #10
    Originally Posted by Tio_Croc Go to original post
    you can GB his chain bash. it's 700ms anyone can react to that. if he follows with a light you can parry.

    BP and conq are overtuned and need rebalancements/nerfs. I think the game would be better in that way, but that's just my opinion. Like they did with Warden's back dodge bash.
    BP is strong. Not broken. It's how every character should be.

    Conqueror is a bit of a problem character. He fits into the "strong, but not broken." Category, but he is played in such a way that goes against how for honor is generally intended to be played. Aggressively. And for that reason he needs more of a rework. Not a nerf.

    Mini edit. I was not talking about conqs chain bash. Just his openers. Due to the fact his chain bash is both slower, and can wall people for higher damage, I don't consider it in this discussion. It's a bad move. It shouldn't be gb'able imo.
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