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  1. #1

    [EDITED] Suggested adjustments (justified) for TG Raider, Orochi and Shinobi reworks

    This is an edited version of my other thread (this one is better overall):

    Raider:

    I mean, the changes are good but they just made Raider an old orochi 2.0, who spams lights, because if you use your heavies or chained zone, your opponent can just do a light and cancel your combos, that's just unfair. And Raider being a new orochi is SO boring, I can say for all of us that we don't want a new spammer roachi. Raider needs to be like a big berserker, with decent HA and stuff, so... they can make this: 1.- Make the HA on heavies starts a little bit earlier, maybe 100-200ms earlier (needed). 2.- Make enhanced only his initial lights and remove enhanced properties on his storming tap (being the storming tap still 400ms). [This can be optional]. 3(option a).- Give him HA on his chained zone, cost 20 stamina and the HA on the chained zone starts later compared to his chained heavies (just HA enough so it can't be cancelled by a 400ms light). (Needed) [This could be a fair balance cuz you can still dodge his chained zone and punish his recovery time with a gb). OR 3(option b).- Make his chained zone faster, lowering the damage by 3 or 4 so it can't be cancelled by a 400ms light. (yes, the TG Raider gets cancelled his combos by a light VERY often... The HA on the reworked Raider works only against very slow dodge attacks and sometimes even jj dodge attack cancels your combo)

    Ubi can also revert the chained lights speed to normal if they like these suggested changes (pre TG I mean) but honestly I don't recommend doing it, because the rest of the heroes has this feature aswell.

    Also I can really see that Raider needs a catching tool, there's two options:
    1.- Make his Out of Lock heavy attack accessible by just forward dodge + heavy, 700 or 800ms speed, catching up people who rolls. (recommended and better option overall)
    2.- Make his Out of Lock Gb attack stampede accessible by just back walking button + gb, having long recovery and able to be punished with a gb if it whiffs, 700, 800 or 900ms speed.(this may cause issues, cuz raider is already a good ganker), this would work only as a good catching tool or a ganking tool, besides that it would be bad for duels due its high recovery times. (like shugoki demon's embrace or lawbringer's longarm).

    Orochi:

    These changes are pretty good, but I could notice this: 1.- The recovery dodge after a missed finisher is TOO slow, slower than before. Just change that back to normal (pre TG changes at least), and if this has issues with the back dodge top light, the back dodge recovery time could be programmed so its slower (same speed as actual TG changes) than side or forward dodge (old/pre TG recovery speed). 2.- The top back dodge light (that now counts as a heavy parry) it's really REALLY fast. Make this 500 or 600ms. OR if not then just make this light parry so it can be punished with a heavy. Also, his side-dodge light attacks now counts as heavy parries and I honestly don't like this at all, some people likes this but some don't so it's up to ubi if they wanna revert this changes or not. (Optional but wanted).- Give him back his heavy deflect, cuz apparently everyone likes that, I mean, it was mostly useless but you could do epic montages with that so... MAYBE you could upgrade this deflect so it can interrupt HA users... But only MAYBE... So in the end orochi still has two deflects light and heavy.
    Besides that I feel that this rework is overall very fine and not too overpowered.

    Shinobi:

    They really buffed hard this lil' guy, I think he's overall good but there's 3 problems: 1.- His Sicke rain is sometimes too good in ganks, cuz now it can be unblockable. It practically guarantees a heavy or more in a gank. Make this feed more revenge if Sickle rain hits. 2.- The heavy after kick can guarantee Shinobi a LOT of damage, cuz now it can wallsplat, and it really pushes you really far so it reaches very far walls and sometimes it's just too unfair. Remove this feature on this combo so it no longers do wallsplat. (the rest of the changes are very good but not too overpowered). 3.- Now Sickle rain is very accessible, And this is nothing good, cuz it can be used to exploit in ganks, I've seen some duo shinobis who just spams you unblockable sickle rain or gb + sickle rain and if you get hit by one of them, you're dead and you can't do anything to stop this. This is VERY exploitable. Here's how it can be fixed: 1.- Give HA on shinobi's opponent while the opponent gets up from his knees after a Sickle rain successfully hit, so it no longer can be exploitable, this also will reduce shinobi's gank potential. 2.- Revert his gb heavy punish changes, this means that now the gb guarantees a normal heavy + light (like pre TG changes) and not a sickle rain, but also Shinobi should be able to chain to his sickle rain (obviously this Sickle rain not guaranteed) after his heavy + light gb punish. 3(optional).- Make his sickle rain accessible after a gb throw, so if shinobi can wallsplat someone after a gb throw, he should be able to guarantee a Sickle rain.

    [edited] I've seen a lot of people saying that they don't like the idea of shinobi's deflect not being guaranteed, and I certainly agree with them. autodeflect isn't needed but I think guaranteed and balanced damage is a must, for this just make guaranteed a 20 or 23 dmg ranged heavy + 4dmg of the teleport deflect (24 or 27 dmg total, that's up to ubi's decision), and after the ranged heavy, shinobi should be able to keep going with his chains (a bash or a Sickle rain, obviously not guaranteed), that's all.

    This is it guys, let me know what y'all think of these changes.
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  2. #2

    More adjustments for Raider

    I've seen that Raider's combos really struggles against a simple dodge or dodge attacks, and because of the lack of HA being really slow, he gets interrupted often by dodge attacks, and still just by dodging you can gb punish him after every finisher successfully dodged. This can be solved by: (a) making undodgeable his storming tap, or (b) making his chained and finisher heavies undodgeable (except his chained zone obviously). If one of this options is actually made, this will solve this problem.
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  3. #3
    I agree with you about the raider mainly, nowadays 90% of games have three or four player spammers, it will be very difficult to defeat them because with just one button the raider will be stopped. And while other characters get new hits, new aids, the raider doesn't get an indifferent upgrade, at the cost of a nerf on the only resource he has. I mentioned that this rework cannot pass, the idea is to leave it rework for the next step and make an ideal balance, like they did with hitokiri, aramusha, shinobi and orochi. Because it will end up being forgotten like they did with the berserker, they don't improve anything and they do it too lazy just to have 3 reworks according to the standard.
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  4. #4
    .Shinobi:

    They really buffed hard this lil' guy, I think he's overall good but there's 3 problems: 1.- His Sicke rain is sometimes too good in ganks, cuz now it can be unblockable. It practically guarantees a heavy or more in a gank. Make this feed more revenge if Sickle rain hits. 2.- The heavy after kick can guarantee Shinobi a LOT of damage, cuz now it can wallsplat, and it really pushes you really far so it reaches very far walls and sometimes it's just too unfair. Remove this feature on this combo so it no longers do wallsplat. (the rest of the changes are very good but not too overpowered). 3.- Now Sickle rain is very accessible, And this is nothing good, cuz it can be used to exploit in ganks, I've seen some duo shinobis who just spams you unblockable sickle rain or gb + sickle rain and if you get hit by one of them, you're dead and you can't do anything to stop this. This is VERY exploitable. Here's how it can be fixed: 1.- Give HA on shinobi's opponent while the opponent gets up from his knees after a Sickle rain successfully hit, so it no longer can be exploitable, this also will reduce shinobi's gank potential. 2.- Revert his gb heavy punish changes, this means that now the gb guarantees a normal heavy + light (like pre TG changes) and not a sickle rain, but also Shinobi should be able to chain to his sickle rain (obviously this Sickle rain not guaranteed) after his heavy + light gb punish. 3(optional).- Make his sickle rain accessible after a gb throw, so if shinobi can wallsplat someone after a gb throw, he should be able to guarantee a Sickle rain.

    [edited] I've seen a lot of people saying that they don't like the idea of shinobi's deflect not being guaranteed, and I certainly agree with them. autodeflect isn't needed but I think guaranteed and balanced damage is a must, for this just make guaranteed a 20 or 23 dmg ranged heavy + 4dmg of the teleport deflect (24 or 27 dmg total, that's up to ubi's decision), and after the ranged heavy, shinobi should be able to keep going with his chains (a bash or a Sickle rain, obviously not guaranteed), that's all.

    This is it guys, let me know what y'all think of these changes.[/QUOTE]

    I agree very much with this post, Shinobi might need some balancing for ganks now that he’s more viable one on one but the new move set is great for the hero.
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