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  1. #1
    UbiInsulin's Avatar Community Manager
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    Y5S2 Testing Grounds + Player Survey

    The Testing Grounds playlist is now live! Our survey is here: https://ubisoft.ca1.qualtrics.com/jf...jRmHvzFXYPvXJY .

    Please use this thread to give us your feedback, and remember to fill out the survey when you feel you have a good understanding of the changes! Your responses help us immensely.

    The overview of the Testing Grounds changes can be found here: https://www.ubisoft.com/en-us/game/f...ments-overview
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  2. #2
    MrBdur's Avatar Senior Member
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    Option Select removal feels amazing. Now the game is more in line with being read based.

    Raider is great. Still strong, but the armor change was needed and the little improvements are also good.

    Orochi feels great, but he may need to be toned back just slightly (the double tap on every single opener, including heavies, storm rush, dodge attacks, etc.) Plus the fact that Orochi's enhanced lights are being treated as heavy attacks, giving heavy parries instead of light parries. Needs fixing.

    Shinobi also feels amazing and may also need to be dialed back a little. The GB and Wall Splat "Sickle Rains" might be too much. Revision is suggested.
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  3. #3
    MayanKingGaming's Avatar Senior Member
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    Omg i destroyed as pk in testing grounds just because people need now to read everything like i do

    excelllent i´m so happy!!!

    the clean version of for honor feel smooth and much more fair, no more wardens and black priors "knowing" everythinh or more like gambling against them because their horrid abuse of option selects. This feels fair and amazing, I just played today , my first play in the new TG and it was amazing, PK feels strong and more fair.

    I strongly recommend to apply the "terminating option selects" directive ASAP in the live game even if the reworks are not aproved at the time, It is the best offensive time I had in ages! You can put the reworks in another patch after, but the anti OS patch can be delivered earlier!

    I streamed the TG on my twitch(Im affiliate and trying to help for honor in latin america) and my follows thought it was better than the live game, also I gained two follows more because my play was more smooth and deadly than live game.Is only a win -win situation.
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  4. #4

    Some of my responses to the survey

    Raider

    BASIC IMPROVEMENTS

    • Confirmed normal heavy on GB as a QoL change and buff. The same can be said for most/all heroes.
    • Running heavy starts chains for better flow in 4v4s
    • Light finisher after second heavy for more attack variety


    NEW MOVES
    • Forward-dodge heavy with hyper armour(HA) and soft-feints like guardbreak(GB), Storming Tap(ST), zone attack, and heavy in another direction. This move would be a roll catcher.
    • Side-dodge undodgeable-heavies with soft-feints like GB, ST, and HA-heavy in another direction. This move would be for countering bashes and other forward moving attacks.
    • Forward-dodge bash that confirms a light. This is another option to open up turtles.

    If dodge attacks are going to be added, include the following:
    • Dodge recovery cancels for Storming Tap and all non-dodge attacks.
    • Add dodge as a cancel option/soft-feint for opening & chained heavies and zone attack.

    These changes will help Raider transition into other moves without both a hard reset or relying on the same mixups which would be good for both 1v1 and anti-gank(1vX) situations.

    MORE ACCESS TO CURRENT MOVES
    • Access Stampede Charge from neutral with a leftstick-down + GB(like Shugoki’s Demon’s Embrace). This would be good for ganking tool and maybe a possible opener for 1v1, depending on the speed.
    • Add Stampede Charge as an alternate chain finisher buy pressing GB after the second attack in a chain(like Valkyrie’s Spear Sweep). This would add to Raider’s mixups.


    OTHER IMPROVEMENTS
    • Give Storming Tap(ST) superior-block for crushing counters(CC). CC-STs would apply extra damage, stun, and wall-splats. Many Raider mains feel that stun should be added back to ST but returning the move to it’s former state would be problematic. Applying stun from a CC-ST would happen less often and would be a good reward for the risk.

    Note:
    Earlier in the survey, I also mentioned that Raider's chained heavies should be like Hitokiri's with early hyper armour timings and without HA on feint. I didn't see why Raider's heavies were an issue but not Hitokiri's and the timings needed to be shifted to solve Raider's problem.


    Orochi

    The removal of Hurricane Blast was unnecessary, especially when it wasn't problematic or overpowered. It was a fan favourite and fun to use.

    The Dodge Recovery Cancels are a bit slow and make Orochi feel stiff when transitioning from one move to the next. The disrupted flow makes him/her easier to counter.

    SUGGESTIONS
    • Give Storm Rush a dodge soft-feint/cancel option to bait deflects, add attack options, and avoid getting hit out of the move. This is a long-requested change.
    • Access Storm Rush from side dodges for more options.
    • Like Raider, make Zone Attack a chain starter, reduce stamina cost to 12, and let it be used in chains via recovery cancels. Also, consider making it undodgeable. This would improve Orochi in 1v1 and 4v4 scenarios.
    • Dodge recovery cancels need to be faster to the level of Tiandi or Zhanhu so attacks can flow better and be more effective.
    • Add back Hurricane Blast. Give it super-armour so it can't be stopped, allow it to stop attacks with hyper armour/uninterruptible stance, and allow it to heal Orochi for 20HP. A combo light and dodge recovery cancel should also be included. These changes would make the move more effective and more rewarding.



    Shinobi

    SUGGESTIONS

    • Inputs need better time windows for buffering and delays. This would make zone cancels, combos, and mix-ups less error-prone.
    • Remove wall-splat from ranged heavy. This makes Shinobi’s offense too similar to Centurion’s old cutscenes.
    • Add an opening light attack after kick for quick access to Sickle Rain.
    • Allow Shinobi to access Back Flip after dodge and missing an attack for more access to his new mix-ups, more mind games, and better body movement.
    • Add these Zone Attack cancel options for better 1vX performance:
      • Dodge
      • Backflip
      • Ranged heavy
      • Both dodge and Backflip recovery cancels for Zone Finisher.

    Note:
    Earlier in the survey I raised an issue where Jiang Jun and Nobushi could access their evasive stances after dodging or not hitting anyone but Shinobi can't access Back Flip after a dodge or missing an attack, even though when move's distance had already been reduced. The former ability added to his/her uniqueness, mix-ups, and mind games. Also, body movement helps make fights more exciting and intense.


    Option Selects

    In the survey I said the removal of option selects were very healthy for the game. My reasons were:
    • they were not intended
    • they shouldn't be balanced for
    • players are forced to make real reads
    • offense(mix-ups) is more viable
    • zones can be balanced for their intended purpose
    • stamina costs of zones can be reduced without creating problems regarding option selects
    • reducing stamina cost of zones:
      • makes offense more viable in 1v1 and 4v4 scenarios(take Raider for example)
      • players won't need revenge first to use zones as they see fit in 1xX scenarios
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  5. #5
    Originally Posted by Soldier_of_Dawn Go to original post
    Raider

    BASIC IMPROVEMENTS

    • Confirmed normal heavy on GB as a QoL change and buff. The same can be said for most/all heroes.
    • Running heavy starts chains for better flow in 4v4s
    • Light finisher after second heavy for more attack variety


    NEW MOVES
    • Forward-dodge heavy with hyper armour(HA) and soft-feints like guardbreak(GB), Storming Tap(ST), zone attack, and heavy in another direction. This move would be a roll catcher.
    • Side-dodge undodgeable-heavies with soft-feints like GB, ST, and HA-heavy in another direction. This move would be for countering bashes and other forward moving attacks.
    • Forward-dodge bash that confirms a light. This is another option to open up turtles.

    If dodge attacks are going to be added, include the following:
    • Dodge recovery cancels for Storming Tap and all non-dodge attacks.
    • Add dodge as a cancel option/soft-feint for opening & chained heavies and zone attack.

    These changes will help Raider transition into other moves without both a hard reset or relying on the same mixups which would be good for both 1v1 and anti-gank(1vX) situations.

    MORE ACCESS TO CURRENT MOVES
    • Access Stampede Charge from neutral with a leftstick-down + GB(like Shugoki’s Demon’s Embrace). This would be good for ganking tool and maybe a possible opener for 1v1, depending on the speed.
    • Add Stampede Charge as an alternate chain finisher buy pressing GB after the second attack in a chain(like Valkyrie’s Spear Sweep). This would add to Raider’s mixups.


    OTHER IMPROVEMENTS
    • Give Storming Tap(ST) superior-block for crushing counters(CC). CC-STs would apply extra damage, stun, and wall-splats. Many Raider mains feel that stun should be added back to ST but returning the move to it’s former state would be problematic. Applying stun from a CC-ST would happen less often and would be a good reward for the risk.

    Note:
    Earlier in the survey, I also mentioned that Raider's chained heavies should be like Hitokiri's with early hyper armour timings and without HA on feint. I didn't see why Raider's heavies were an issue an not Hitokiri's and the timings needed to be shifted to solve Raider's problem.


    Orochi

    The removal of Hurricane Blast was unnecessary, especially when it wasn't problematic or overpowered. It was a fan favourite and fun to use.

    The Dodge Recovery Cancels are a bit slow and make Orochi feel stiff when transitioning from one move to the next. The disrupted flow makes him/her easier to counter.

    SUGGESTIONS
    • Give Storm Rush a dodge soft-feint/cancel option to bait deflects, add attack options, and avoid getting hit out of the move. This is a long-requested change.
    • Access Storm Rush from side dodges for more options.
    • Like Raider, make Zone Attack a chain starter, reduce stamina cost to 12, and let it be used in chains via recovery cancels. Also, consider making it undodgeable. This would improve Orochi in 1v1 and 4v4 scenarios.
    • Dodge recovery cancels need to be faster to the level of Tiandi or Zhanhu so attacks can flow better and be more effective.
    • Add back Hurricane Blast. Give it super-armour so it can't be stopped, allow it to stop attacks with hyper armour/uninterruptible stance, and allow it to heal Orochi for 20HP. A combo light and dodge recovery cancel should also be included. These changes would make the move more effective and more rewarding.



    Shinobi

    SUGGESTIONS

    • Inputs need better time windows for buffering and delays. This would make zone cancels, combos, and mix-ups less error-prone.
    • Remove wall-splat from ranged heavy. This makes Shinobi’s offense too similar to Centurion’s old cutscenes.
    • Add an opening light attack after kick for quick access to Sickle Rain.
    • Allow Shinobi to access Back Flip after dodge and missing an attack for more access to his new mix-ups, more mind games, and better body movement.
    • Add these Zone Attack cancel options for better 1vX performance:
      • Dodge
      • Backflip
      • Ranged heavy
      • Both dodge and Backflip recovery cancels for Zone Finisher.

    Note:
    Earlier in the survey I raised an issue where Jiang Jun and Nobushi could access their evasive stances after dodging or not hitting anyone but Shinobi can't access Back Flip after a dodge or missing an attack, even though when move's distance had already been reduced. The former ability added to his/her uniqueness, mix-ups, and mind games. Also, body movement helps make fights more exciting and intense.


    Option Selects

    In the survey I said the removal of option selects were very healthy for the game. My reasons were:
    • they were not intended
    • they shouldn't be balanced for
    • players are forced to make real reads
    • offense(mix-ups) is more viable
    • zones can be balanced for their intended purpose
    • stamina costs of zones can be reduced without creating problems regarding option selects
    • reducing stamina cost of zones:
      • makes offense more viable in 1v1 and 4v4 scenarios(take Raider for example)
      • players won't need revenge first to use zones as they see fit in 1xX scenarios

    Mini reminder. Raider always got a zone off gb. Now it costs less stamina and chains. You essentially get a heavy off gb now. That is all
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  6. #6
    Originally Posted by deathtocakl Go to original post
    Mini reminder. Raider always got a zone off gb. Now it costs less stamina and chains. You essentially get a heavy off gb now. That is all
    I know. I recently spoke to some Raider mains on YouTube and they wanted it. I feel this should be a standard feature for all heroes as I said in my original comment. You also have to consider situations where the zone would hit the wall and ruin the GB punish. A free side or top heavy would solve that issue.
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  7. #7
    MayanKingGaming's Avatar Senior Member
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    nice sugestions from soldier, ubi.

    also Ubi, can we revisite the perks for assassins?

    most are utter garbage compared with the heavy class ones.

    tell me why I would use a meagre 30% bonus for just one attack? as if people wouldn´t block heavyes , so yeah a light plus+5. wow.

    only endurance is usable, barely cause you need to build renown, and everyone knows building renown with assassins is slow as a handicapped snail.

    compare for example well rounded perks for tanks like the one giving 40% of damage resistance when one is in critical health to the utter crap is survival instinct, why use can I have for the 25% stamina discount (not even 40% like the most loved class) for only my literal seconds of last survival attempts?, this is rigged in favor of heavies.

    devourer was fine with +15 for execution. YOU NEED THE EXTRA STEP OF EXECUTION unlike remedy so , why we were nerfed to +10 OH BECAUSE WERE ARE NOT HEAVIES, poor heavies it was so unfair for them, so yeah we need to execute someone to aquire the +10. Crap.

    "but you can use it in sInERgY with Bounty Hunter" yeah? and also with the new one on the second slot...homever you still need executions for the perk and the second tier feat one, so 15 is fine in exchange of the effort.

    Why our perks cannot grant us better numbers and moderately better durations? for example 40% on survival instinct or an activation at 50%of health?
    now the most difficult to get is head hunter which I personally use, you can say it´s fine but not as fine as bulk up post ccu,AGAIN, heavies got it faster and better. You don´t need executions with bulk up. In fact you don´t need killin anyone, just gaining renown and that´s it, you are a tank, with +40% damage reduction, feats that heal you and protect you, and even other perks that give you shields and zone based damage protection. man this is too heavy sided.It´s obvious.

    galestorm is crap cause its short duration , and executions time are included in the time the perk is active. Again CRAP. we need tools for assassins galestorm is more for support class.

    you can fix the two useless damage bonus perks by adding a round number just +10 to +12 and boom they are useful. Right now maybe only zerk can use these two with some success.
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  8. #8
    l've completed the survey, so I'll only mostly reiterate what I've already said plus a few more.

    First of all, props to the devs on the success of this TG. I'm confident with the changes and input from players and content creators alike that the team understands what works and what does not in all terms. I'll be covering RAIDER's changes in this post, and cover the other heroes in posts to follow.

    Before I begin, I'll state for the record that I've been playing and keeping up with the game since it came out, and actively tend to push for the balancing spectrum of the the most experienced players.

    RAIDER changes: I have 42 Reps on Raider. Raider is currently the only hero I have fun playing, and I was the most excited to test the changes for this hero.

    We can't necessarily call this a rework, but more like QoL changes. There are some really good things about the changes Raider received, but there are things that also hurt the character more than I would like. The changes are, for the most part, universally seen as "Not good enough", and I believe I agree.

    Stamina changes on all Zone inputs from 50/35 to 12:
    REALLY good change. Raider can now more efficiently pressure opponents with UB pressure. Flow and mixups have been increased at least 50%.

    Neutral Zone acts as a chain starter, and buffed from 22dmg to 24dmg: REALLY good change. Raider's GB punish is now in line with all the other heroes and can effectively continue pressure and chains afterward. My favorite change.

    Faster Storming Tap from 500ms to 400ms, and now enhanced: REALLY good change. It's an effective soft feint(SF) and has proven to work against many players. The fact that it's enhanced allows Raider to continue pressure instead of being shut down so fast.

    Faster chained lights: GOOD change. However, this should have been done a long time ago when CCU was released. Any light slower than 500ms is useless in today's current game. With this change, Raider can effectively utilize lights to help his mixups and puts him in line with other heroes.

    Faster top heavy finisher from 1000ms to 900ms. GOOD change. Not all that necessary, but I'll take it. This may theoretically increase the likelihood of the top heavy finisher landing by 10%. The problem Raider had before was, since it was so slow, a feint to GB would bounce off sometimes if someone went for the parry. This probably won't happen as much, anymore.

    SF and Dodge Storming Tap deal different damage: GOOD change. Dodge Storming Tap is now in line with most dodge attack damage and is slightly more punishing against bashes.

    Unfortunately, that is the end of the positive changes that I've tested. Now, I'll cover some changes that I think are hurtful to the character and explain why they don't work.

    Standardized timing for all Storming Taps: While Storming tap now works as a proper mixup in chains, the removal of variable timings also removes Raider's ability to roll-catch. Before, on a read, you could perform a delayed forward-dodge Storming Tap to catch rollers. Raider can no longer do this and no longer has an option against people who want to disengage. It is not possible to catch rolls with the new standardized timing.

    Hyper Armor nerfed to begin at feint timing: While I do agree it may have been too strong before with how Raider could just HA through everything, now he just can't. Raider can constantly be interrupted and can't actually get to his chains like he could before. Unfortunately, Raider is forced to feint to neutral more because mindless dodge attacks connect before HA activates, which is pretty bad. Even my own team mates are now capable of hitting me out of my own chains, something I never thought I'd have to see playing Raider...
    The team wants Raider to be more mixup-intensive, but if my chains can just be stopped by a dodge attack, or any attack for that matter before HA kicks in, that means Raider is forced to stall instead of trying to deal damage.

    The nerf to HA negates most of the aforementioned positive changes, and I think this is why players tend to believe he performs worse than in live.

    Faster Stampede Charge from 600ms to 500ms:
    The devs commented saying the move was basically useless, and most experienced players call bull**** on that, respectively.
    While a faster Stampede Charge would be more likely to land theoretically speaking, there's a problem that I think the devs overlooked.
    Now that it's faster, you have to be a couple meters closer. With this comes less tracking and more visibility for your opponent. The biggest thing I noticed is that the new Stampede Charge has really awful tracking, and is not connecting at all like it used to. In MY personal experience, I've not had nearly as much success with the Stampede Charge because of this, and the fact that I have to be closer means players are more likely to see me and have time to dodge as soon as I'm in view. Since the tracking is worse, they can dodge on reaction and avoid it.



    To summarize, there are some very, very nice changes to Raider in this TG. However, it's not enough. The nerf to HA subsequently nullifies most of the changes, and the standardization of Storming Tap removed the only roll catch Raider had... The devs commented that the goal was to make Raider a substitute or interchangeable option between Warlord and Kensei. These changes are simply NOT on par with what those characters already have, which are good chase tools, peeling tools, defensive tools, speed, zoning tools etc. Raider still can't chain off a sprint attack, either, which is even frame disadvantaged...

    Raider's recovery on a Zone finisher is still 1300ms, which is the highest of any move recovery in the game. This makes using the move in team fights incredibly risky against experienced opponents since the move is slow. If you aren't getting interrupted out of it, you'll most definitely take damage if it doesn't connect.

    Light attack animations are still bad, which makes the attacks feel faster than they actually are.

    The biggest problems preventing Raider from being Comp-worthy is no longer just mixup potential now that Option Selects are gone, but he can't support his team mates as well. He can't peel fast for them, and he can't chase fleeing opponents. Sticky dodge continues to be an issue for Raider, as well...

    Raider simply won't be good enough until all of the things I've mentioned in this thread are fixed. It's as simple as that.
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  9. #9

    Essential replacement of option selects

    I fully understand why everyone agrees that option selects need to go, but IF THEY DO please for the love of God let me cancel a parry that doesn't connect to a gb counter in time to counter heavy feints to gb. It's such an abused mechanic especially if the heavy is unblockable bc your only two options are parry or dodge, which a gb counters both 😒
    I see this crap coming from a mile away yet I'm forced to just guess if my opponent will feint to a grab or not since reacting isn't an option.
    It is the worst and most abused mechanic bc there is no option to reflect the gb even if you cancel the heavy that was intended to initially parry.
    Please add parry cancel to gb counter, it's so frustrating...
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  10. #10

    Y5S2 testing grounds feedback

    I feel like the option select removal would turn the fights more into a guessing game where heroes such as for example, Shugoki or Hitokiri could take advantage of with their ability to delay and faint attacks into a variety of mixups which would require the player to make strong reads or just rely on luck in order to counterattack their offence. Instead I think it would be better to keep the option selects and adjust all characters to be able to punish them equally if they manage to bait it out.

    The Shinobi rework is fantastic. Although the wall splat as amazing as it feels I think it’s a bit too powerful so I think it would be better to still keep it but give it less knock back so it’s harder to pull it off. I like the sprint attack changes but I also liked the previous move. Maybe it would be cool to give players the option to have both of the sprint attacks and for example trigger one of them by holding square (guard break on ps4/ps5). If you want to get Shinobi to be more sickle rain focused then you could make the slide sprint attack chain into sickle rain and keep the other sprint attack as well as it is.
    Shinobi’s dodge and double chain into light attacks and heavy attacks are something that I think should be kept as it gives players more variety of attacks after a dodge which would also make the character less predictable. One last thing is the removal of the ranged guradbreak. As unfair as it is in a close combat game (especially in team fights) I feel like it doesn’t deserve to be completely eliminated from the game. Instead I think it should receive a similar treatment just like the back flip dodge did. Make it harder to use and perhaps decrease its range which would force the Shinobi to be in closer proximity to the opposing players. For example, make it available only after a double dodge or only after a backflip dodge etc. Everything else is really good. I love the mixups chains of the kick after parry and more sickle rain opportunities as well as the unblockable ranged melee and the chain of the guaranteed attack after the unblockable backflip kick. Everything was felt really good it definitely improved Shinobi’s offence.

    Orochi’s unblockable kick is amazing. Just like with Shinobi, it improves its offence and opens more mixup and flow opportunities. The undodgable storm rush from all sides is a great addition as well as making it available from a front dodge. The removal of the heavy punish after parrying Orochi’s dodge attack is good as it allows players to use them more often without big consequences ,however, since the back dodge light attack is faster (which is also good) it should be the only one with a heavy punish as it is harder to react to so it will be more rewarding after the parry. Additionally, I think the third light finisher should stay to keep the flow of Orochi’s attacks without having to constantly make mixups or faints. To balance it out the light finisher could be made slower or do more damage but at least it would be there. Furthermore, the recovery after a heavy finisher should be kept like it was before. It kind of feels slow and I understand that the introduction of the kick and additional chains boosts Orochi’s offence a lot but at least speed the recovery up slightly if having it like it is currently would give too much pressure advantage. Lastly, the removal of the heavy follow up after deflect didn’t seem that great. Even though it wasn’t used as much as the light follow up it was nice to use it sometimes. It is definitely helpful against most non assassin characters and I think that option should stay.

    Raider’s decreased stamina penalty form the zone attacks is great and it’s a really good change as it allows for a more frequent use. The removal of the variable soft faint into top light is also good and I think it balances the character out well. The changes to the sprint attack are also good. There aren’t as many crucial changes to Raider as there are to Shinobi and Orochi but they are definitely good changes and everything else is good.
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