The solution for heavy dodge attacks | Forums

[Knight_Raime]

Any dodge attack is going to beat GBing from neutral or feint to GB after a light hitstun aside from JJ/tiandi's dodge heavies. If you're wanting feint into GB to work you have to make them take a heavy or block a heavy and then feint the follow up heavy. I believe Freeze did a whole video about punishing dodge attacks that covers this and more.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kU-q_SrV4NU&t=8s

[PicoAncus]

Any dodge attack is going to beat GBing from neutral or feint to GB after a light hitstun aside from JJ/tiandi's dodge heavies. If you're wanting feint into GB to work you have to make them take a heavy or block a heavy and then feint the follow up heavy.

I might be wrong...but this will probably promote turtling against the heros with Dodge Heavys... it already happens with Kensei.

[Knight_Raime]

I might be wrong...but this will probably promote turtling against the heros with Dodge Heavys... it already happens with Kensei.

Elaborate?

[deathtocakl]

Elaborate?

I think he's calling heavy into heavy feint gb to catch dodge heavies overpowered

[PicoAncus]

Elaborate?

I may have misunderstood, but if the objective is not to get GB in neutral to respond to a Dodge Heavy... as it already happens when facing the Kenseis, I think that will motivate the turtling.

[deathtocakl]

I may have misunderstood, but if the objective is not to get GB in neutral to respond to a Dodge Heavy... as it already happens when facing the Kenseis, I think that will motivate the turtling.

I mean the game is about reads. Gotta have multiple options for reads to matter. Also gotta have options to punish bashes.

[TigrisOfDeus]

I also said this, by the way it should help to diferentiate classes even more.

[deathtocakl]

I personally think every character needs some sort of dodge attack. Jorm and cent are sad boys when it comes to bashes

[Saint_YeetsXB]

I personally think every character needs some sort of dodge attack. Jorm and cent are sad boys when it comes to bashes

I agree as well. There are certain things every character needs. An opener and a bash punish/counter. Whether that bash punish comes in the form of JJ/Nobu hidden/shifu's stance, Bp's flip, or a normal dodge attack or dodge bash. Granted I also believe that if baited these options need counters. Dodge attacks being lower dmg to atleast be equal in punish as in gain (light dmg and countered by parry to light as an example), or have dodge bashes have a longer gb window during start up as they are inherently a stronger form of dodge attack being a bash. Im no expert on this front to be honest and i personally dont think there really is a true blanket way of changing everything so that everyone is happy and balanced at the same time when it comes to this.

[Knight_Raime]

I may have misunderstood, but if the objective is not to get GB in neutral to respond to a Dodge Heavy... as it already happens when facing the Kenseis, I think that will motivate the turtling.

I still don't follow.

People (in general,) have an issue with heavy dodge attacks because of how "safe" they are. This safety comes from being "immune" from feint into GB as well as being delayable for some and only rewarding a light "only" if parried. OP suggested that the dodge heavies be made to be light parries to bring them in line with dodge lights. Whom also have the same benefits here except they're rewarded a heavy if parried.

I disagree with this solution because all dodge attacks sans zhanhu's are extremely reactable if you bait them by empty feinting. I suggested that if someone want's a greater reward than "only" a light they should make a heavy land or be blocked (exception of zhanhu,) and then feint into GB. As this will get them a guard break which rewards a heavy. And it also requires proper conditioning and asks players to think more instead of the binary "they dodge on indicator I feint and get heaby."