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  1. #71
    ... yet nobody really knows what form and shape final Heartland will be.
    The fact that it was MIA at the makeshift E3 is not very encouraging... either is very far from a finished product, or the closed test response was bad (or both).
    They might change it ten times from what was leaked from the test to the release.
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  2. #72
    WrecK3rr's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by dagrommit Go to original post
    Heartland has both PvE and PvPvE modes.
    Also you can crouch in Heartland. So I guess it is not strictly cover based anymore?
    Idk but that's what I saw in the leaked early development gameplay.
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  3. #73
    dagrommit's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by WrecK3rr Go to original post
    Also you can crouch in Heartland. So I guess it is not strictly cover based anymore?
    Idk but that's what I saw in the leaked early development gameplay.
    I am only relaying what was reported in Eurogamer.
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  4. #74
    Originally Posted by chicagolongball Go to original post
    The PvP community is getting their own entire GAME. Not game mode, GAME. Here's hoping the PvE community gets the same, and has all those resources directed to continued DLC and expansions. Each community deserves a dedicated game.
    The fact that you are forcing people in to either one or the other category is one reason why the game mode is not as popular as it should be.
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  5. #75
    Originally Posted by TxDieselKid Go to original post
    The fact that you are forcing people in to either one or the other category is one reason why the game mode is not as popular as it should be.
    For the record, I enjoy PvP, but if Division 3 wants to do the PvPvE thing, it needs some changes. The main three gripes you hear constantly are these.

    PvPPPP is not fun. At all.

    Getting shot in the back at a Landmark before the SHD even informs you of a rogue agent is a chicken sh1t way to play.

    Cheaters run rampant and are never punished.

    Those three things need to be changed to make it a fun experience for everyone. I don't mind a good fight. If I lose, I lose, but don't shoot me in the back and pretend you're good. Also 4 players ganging up on 1 is a real problem.

    Rogues need to have to stay rogue until they are killed, 24 hours, whatever. And when a player goes rogue, there should be a 5 second immunity to all other players. Also, rogue agents need to lose use of the SHD skills. And for the love of all things Holy, stop the cheaters and hackers and IP ban them. Those few changes would make things much better.
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  6. #76
    Originally Posted by chicagolongball Go to original post
    For the record, I enjoy PvP, but if Division 3 wants to do the PvPvE thing, it needs some changes. The main three gripes you hear constantly are these.

    PvPPPP is not fun. At all.

    Getting shot in the back at a Landmark before the SHD even informs you of a rogue agent is a chicken sh1t way to play.

    Cheaters run rampant and are never punished.

    Those three things need to be changed to make it a fun experience for everyone. I don't mind a good fight. If I lose, I lose, but don't shoot me in the back and pretend you're good. Also 4 players ganging up on 1 is a real problem.

    Rogues need to have to stay rogue until they are killed, 24 hours, whatever. And when a player goes rogue, there should be a 5 second immunity to all other players. Also, rogue agents need to lose use of the SHD skills. And for the love of all things Holy, stop the cheaters and hackers and IP ban them. Those few changes would make things much better.
    I don't disagree with you, a better job of balancing talents to be different in PvP/PvE is also a must. There is not enough of it in today's experience.
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  7. #77
    Not gonna lie, I'd absolutely in a heartbeat throw my money to a division 3 with no PvP, for the sole reason that powerful builds to use against the npc enemies won't have to be nerfed into oblivion because a bunch of salty sallys in the DZ don't like how powerful it is against "them".

    The series could do away with PvP in general and I wouldn't even bat an eyelash tbh as most of our gear issues stem from the DZ crowd getting their undies in a twist because the gear and abilities are only supposed to be strong FOR them and not when used AGAINST them.

    That being my personal opinion though, I think what really needs to happen is they need to hard separate the two.

    We all remember Survival from Division 1, wasn't my jam because I really truly loved Underground and wish they'd give us that back in 2 because summit is trash, but why not the ability to transfer to a independent map, where its no holds barred, you can either work together, or go be a stain on humanity and attack other agents. In this map, you can have safehouses, gear and kit that do not transfer back to main world, and by doing this any balancing for this world is not going to affect main world.

    The main problem the series has always had is the mixing of the two styles, pve and pvp, and the fact that they are oil and water means it never really ends well. 1 forced you in to the DZ because thats where the good stuff was, until 1.8 happened. 2 has a better system but most of the nerfing has come from dz players mad that a gearset or skill or combination of them kicks their *** and they want that nerfed in the DZ, and because the dz and lz live in the same "world" there is no way to split the balancing, it has to be applied across the board.

    Not separate games, but a standalone game mode or game world to travel to in game to achieve PvP. Like how we helicopter over to New York, why not be able to transition between the LZ world, and the DZ world? Separate gear between them and no ability to transfer, so Dz has it's own gear so balancing can be done to either world without affecting the other.

    When going rogue, I say all of your SHD skills need deactivated and you get your guns and grenades only, for sure.
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  8. #78
    xcel30's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by WrecK3rr Go to original post
    Also you can crouch in Heartland. So I guess it is not strictly cover based anymore?
    Idk but that's what I saw in the leaked early development gameplay.
    It has some interesting mechanics that people DID ask for, but will it cost other features being removed for the sake of making them work? will it be a like hate it or love it D2 armor system compared to the first game of just having a single big health bar? thats why i can't fully fault a game just for existing weather it succeds or not it will serve to test new big mechanic changes that couldn't have done before

    Spoiler:  Show
    such as melee and stealth kills being part of from the leaked gameplay


    For the sake of argument why i don't like the game PVP:

    - It's meta builds only, they don't spread like wildfire they spread like a virus and entering a place that is made for 24 people running the same meta build is not fun and completely choke the entire point of farming gear and creating your own personal style
    - People go to DZ don't go for the gear or shoot you for your gear, they go to fight PVP and the game own PVP game mode feels bad. DZ is not a place for PVP "duels" is about tension and might makes right and when you add the previous point of meta builds and ganksquads it loses all tension since you know what will happen.
    - PVP doesn't require much player input and skills and is mostly gear dependent, so it's rare to see a battle that you won because you were more skilled than the other player, it's more that they used something more powerful that made your skills useless
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  9. #79
    Originally Posted by Sircowdog1 Go to original post
    So first I'm "begging". But now it's straw man all the way down. Great.

    Let me make something perfectly clear here: There is a distinct difference between pointing out how bad an idea it is to mix PVE and PVP, and the entirely different topic of how to do some form of open world Dark zone in a way that would be good for PVE.

    Regardless, you don't do yourself any credit by making up fabricated reasons then arguing against those instead of what people are actually saying.

    When have I ever once in all my posts on these forums(or anywhere else for that matter) asked or even implied I wanted private servers?

    And do you think for a moment that repeatedly pointing out the flaws with the DZ somehow makes them less valid? Or that because I point them out that I don't like PVP? Why do you think I always bring up EVE online? It's because I played and enjoyed it for more time than Division 1 and 2 have ever existed And because it's about a million times more of a reall PVP experience than the halfa**ed attempts Massive has made.

    So please stop making assumptions.

    Now...to address the actual points you brought up:

    Making a PVE-only toggle for the DZ is, at best, a bandaid solution. Throwing a bone to players this late in the lifespan of the game won't hurt anything. But if we're talking about Division 3, then nothing you described from Div2's DZ is on the table.

    I would imagine a real PVE dark zone would be more like Survival from Division 1, only with more hunters or rogue agent NPCs, better AI, with mandatory directives of Ammo Hoarder and no regen thrown in, forcing players to conserve ammo and armor kits.

    Throw on top of that random events or procedurally generated missions that could either be taken at the entrance, or discovered inside the DZ via crates or drops from kills, similar to how you sometimes get bounties from hostage situations in the LZ of Division 2. These random missions might have additional directives, or boss encounters with special conditions.

    There's a wealth of ideas which could be taken from other looter games, such as diablo 3 or POE. A day/night cycle could be used similar to hunter mask encounters from div2. Special materials ala exotic recipies could be scattered throughout.

    So don't give me some weak boring example of the laziest parts of farming the DZ and tell me it's a bad idea. All you're doing is showing a lack of creativity.
    Didn't say you were asking for private servers.
    But that you would ask ​for it after a day in a pve dz.

    And everything you say could be in 3 words.
    Ready?
    Bring back Survival.

    All your other ideas are already in the open world.
    Maybe they can improve or add stuff but it's there.
    Rogues and hunters idea:
    You want pve dz because of rogue players.
    And then all of a sudden you want more rogues in dz.
    just ask for more encounters in the openworld.
    Hunters are worse then real players!!
    damage,healing,skill haste/duration wise.
    And now you want them as well.
    For now imagine that other players are Rogue npc's or weak Hunters. (With better AI, alright?)
    Just go in the dz and farm for the exclusives that you're never gonna use.

    You talk about pve dz.
    I respond to that.
    Then it's about balance.
    I respond to that.
    Then it's about pve and pvp don't mix.
    I can respond to that but then you say.
    Nah it's all about dz exclusives.

    Just stop about a pve only dz and come with ideas they can put in the open world and/or dz.
    Especially dz (for the pure pve players) so it would be more attractive for them to go in a *PvEvP* zone.
    Not PvE only, not PvP only but PvEvP.

    I get that you don't like pvp I have the same problem.
    Played conflict maybe 7 times.
    Dz 15 hours all together, went rogue 12x or something. Killed 30 players maybe.
    (Full stats are in a thread that they closed, but my point is: it's not a lot of DZ time)
    I only went rogue on players that jumped/ganked me.
    Don't go in there then if you don't like it.
    There is more to do in the open world anyway.

    And now like last time you gonna say:
    Yes but in the LZ its just you('re team) and no one else.
    Just ask for a open world with multiple people like they have in Destiny.
    Then we probably get public events where 10 players empty 8 mags on 1 boss type of shiite.
    (Without the boss healing that is)

    How is it that me as a pve player with 50% potato aim can go in the dz without complaining that I die by rogue players.

    You can make multiple threads here.
    (Not here but in the suggestions forum)
    And underneath the titel you put in your ideas.
    1. Bring back Survival.
    2. Improvements for the open world.
    3. More rogue encounters.
    4. Put hunters in the open world. (Can also be 3)
    6. Multiple people in the open world.
    (7. Pve darkzone lol)

    Before you say the devs don't listen anyway.
    A buddy of mine made a list on this site in Div 1 forums.
    And a lot of it is in div 2 now.
    So come with ideas instead of changing other modes for your own good only.

    This is the list he made:
    Point 5. is nice.

    https://forums.ubisoft.com/showthread.php/1711834-Open-World-Events

    For people that don't trust links:
    It's on this site but in Div 1 forums
    In suggestions and feedback
    Page 1 or 2.
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  10. #80
    Originally Posted by chicagolongball Go to original post
    The PvP community is getting their own entire GAME. Not game mode, GAME. Here's hoping the PvE community gets the same, and has all those resources directed to continued DLC and expansions. Each community deserves a dedicated game.
    You are right pve is so small in Division 2 now.
    It's only as big as 1 conflict map.
    WoNY dlc is pure pvp and pvevp
    The whole freaking map is one big dz.
    Not one mission in there
    You are 100.000% right my man!!!
    Triple bullseye for you!!
    The only activitys in this game for pve is:
    - 3 small missions
    - Small land marks. (In dz they are waaaay bigger)
    - and suply drops. (Dz has all the other activities)
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