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  1. #41
    Originally Posted by Merphee Go to original post
    I always say you don't have to actively PVP in the DZ, you just have to be ready to defend yourself.
    DING!! DING!! DING!! DING!!
    What do we have for him Johnny!?!
    Exactly this!!
    -----------------------------------------------------------
    But every full on PvE player goes in the DZ thinking they are STILL playing normal open world.
    And because of that they are REALLY surprised and caught off guard when pvp happens.
    And some of them complain here for a PvE DZ...
    Which is NOT gonna happen, because they made a whole living open world for them.
    They even put in Controlpoints (PvE Landmarks) for those that can't handle PvP in a PvEvP zone.
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  2. #42
    Merphee's Avatar Volunteer Moderator
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    Originally Posted by Sircowdog1 Go to original post
    I wonder how accepting Conflict players would be if raid encounters randomly spawned into their conflic matches and halted all PVP until it was cleared. And then were told "Well it's not PVE but you have to be prepared to do it."


    Well, there's Last Stand...

    I'm not sure why Conflict was used here. Can't suddenly add PVE mechanics to a PVP exclusive mode, when the DZ isn't exclusively PVE.
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  3. #43
    Originally Posted by Sircowdog1 Go to original post
    I wonder how accepting Conflict players would be if raid encounters randomly spawned into their conflic matches and halted all PVP until it was cleared. And then were told "Well it's not PVE but you have to be prepared to do it."
    You act like the open world is as small as every pvp map in conflict.

    Conflict is pure pvp
    Open world is pure pve
    DZ is for both, get over it
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  4. #44
    Merphee's Avatar Volunteer Moderator
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    Originally Posted by DutchLMB4ever Go to original post
    DING!! DING!! DING!! DING!!
    What do we have for him Johnny!?!
    Exactly this!!
    -----------------------------------------------------------
    But every full on PvE player goes in the DZ thinking they are STILL playing normal open world.
    And because of that they are REALLY surprised and caught off guard when pvp happens.
    And some of them complain here for a PvE DZ...
    Which is NOT gonna happen, because they made a whole living open world for them.
    They even put in Controlpoints (PvE Landmarks) for those that can't handle PvP in a PvEvP zone.
    I wouldn't say that's why they added control points. You have to look at Division 1's PVE to see why they did that, and they did that because Division 1's open world PVE was beyond terrible.

    Division 1's open world PVE, or lack thereof, was also the origin of PVE DZ, since "public events" and landmarks only existed in the DZ at the time. If you wanted to experience that style of PVE, then you had to go in there. The LZ only had missions and unrewarding Bounties, up until 1.8.
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  5. #45
    Sircowdog1's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by Merphee Go to original post


    Well, there's Last Stand...

    I'm not sure why Conflict was used here. Can't suddenly add PVE mechanics to a PVP exclusive mode, when the DZ isn't exclusively PVE.
    Because I wanted to illustrate how ridiculous it would seem if we talked about other PVP game modes in the same kind of language. Or if we tried to rationalize dropping PVE into PVP game modes the same way PVP interferes with the PVE aspects of the DZ.

    I probably did a poor job of it(rushed post before work)
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  6. #46
    Sircowdog1's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by DutchLMB4ever Go to original post
    You act like the open world is as small as every pvp map in conflict.

    Conflict is pure pvp
    Open world is pure pve
    DZ is for both, get over it
    And the balance for all is wrecked when incompetent devs try to mix them.

    And it will continue to be so as long as players ignore the flaws amd tell others to "get over it" instead of demanding better.
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  7. #47
    Merphee's Avatar Volunteer Moderator
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    Originally Posted by Sircowdog1 Go to original post
    Because I wanted to illustrate how ridiculous it would seem if we talked about other PVP game modes in the same kind of language. Or if we tried to rationalize dropping PVE into PVP game modes the same way PVP interferes with the PVE aspects of the DZ.

    I probably did a poor job of it(rushed post before work)
    Even if NPC encounters were added to Conflict, the game mode itself would relay that information somewhere in the tutorials or the queue / map vote screen, ultimately setting expectations so no one is surprised.

    What's more concerning that wouldn't be relayed and isn't relayed anywhere in the game is NPC health pools. Division has a history of bullet spongey NPCs, and I think that would be more of a concern to Conflict players than the addition of NPC encounters themselves. Course, that stuff can be patched.
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  8. #48
    Sircowdog1's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by Merphee Go to original post
    Even if NPC encounters were added to Conflict, the game mode itself would relay that information somewhere in the tutorials or the queue / map vote screen, ultimately setting expectations so no one is surprised.

    What's more concerning that wouldn't be relayed and isn't relayed anywhere in the game is NPC health pools. Division has a history of bullet spongey NPCs, and I think that would be more of a concern to Conflict players than the addition of NPC encounters themselves. Course, that stuff can be patched.
    Perhaps this is better grounds for the point I was trying to make.


    What if spongy NPCs were in conflict, and it was widely expressed by PVP players that they wanted a version of Conflict with no NPCs. However, the devs refused to take the NPCs out or give such an option, but continued to leave conflict-exclusive items locked to that game mode with NPCs.

    I suppose some would continue to be in favor. But I imagine most Conflict players would get tired of the NPCs interfering with both games and balance.

    Now add in the possibility of PVP progress and rewards being lost if the NPCs killed conflict players. I suppose that would go over REALLY well with the PVP crowd.
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  9. #49
    Merphee's Avatar Volunteer Moderator
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    Originally Posted by Sircowdog1 Go to original post
    And the balance for all is wrecked when incompetent devs try to mix them.
    So then we'd have to take a look at where the issue lies. Is the issue gear balancing or is the issue group sizes? These two issues are hot topics between anti dz and pro dz threads.

    One can be mediated with solo servers. The other is forever nebulous.
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  10. #50
    The best thing would be to split the 2 games up , one for PVE and one for PVP

    Div 2 showed there is no way they can balance both effectively and caused so much friction between both camps

    The DZ is a unique mode but at the same time one of the most toxic modes you can possibly have , the manhunt system need a complete overhaul to make it an actual challenge to get it and a challange to clear it

    The DZ has been plagued with cheaters and corner glitches since day one and again shows that no-one cared about the PVP after Redstorm went into hiatus before coming back with Heartland
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