Have the devs mentioned crashing charge? | Forums

[LightUpTheEyes]

I have to not play today or something. Pretty much every match I get in has at least two Warlords just running around crashing charging around. Have the devs mentioned if they even have that on their radar to fix? Surely they are not ok with that being in the game. I just wish they wouldn't take so long to tone it down a bit.

[Goat_of_Vermund]

I have to not play today or something. Pretty much every match I get in has at least two Warlords just running around crashing charging around. Have the devs mentioned if they even have that on their radar to fix? Surely they are not ok with that being in the game. I just wish they wouldn't take so long to tone it down a bit.

It should move the enemy player like 2-3 meters. Warlord is bs.

[Knight_Raime]

Not as far as I know. But yeah it needs to be looked at. A super armored move that has the capability to OOS someone in two carries that can re confirm itself off of wall bounces is pretty insane. The distance it throws normally is perfectly fine imho. It's that there's so many other good things going for it.

[Goat_of_Vermund]

Not as far as I know. But yeah it needs to be looked at. A super armored move that has the capability to OOS someone in two carries that can re confirm itself off of wall bounces is pretty insane. The distance it throws normally is perfectly fine imho. It's that there's so many other good things going for it.

To be honest, that move is the sole reason Warlord is a mandatory pick in 4v4, and it also makes some maps completely unplayable.

[Knight_Raime]

To be honest, that move is the sole reason Warlord is a mandatory pick in 4v4, and it also makes some maps completely unplayable.

Not really, like it definitely helps. But Warlord has a lot of very good feats backing him. Rush gives him the ability to rotate pretty much everywhere he's needed and it's a T1 feat so a very low cooldown. Jugger is a 10 second stall time guaranteed on top of playing off of fury. Since both give DR you can almost have DR on when you need it. And flask is well, flask.

Then you have his zone. Which is a very strong peel tool. Was widely regarded as the best for awhile. Still could argue that. He's just very well rounded overall. Crashing charge just takes him that extra level. However with Goki's current T4 lasting as long as it does you could argue he could take WL's place if you really wanted to fit someone else in your team instead of running both Goki and WL.

[Goat_of_Vermund]

Goki is an other thing. I won't be surprised if they ban him from competitive play, he is disgustingly broken without a weakness.


Warlord has good feats, but so does others, juggernaut is available for others as well, so as a staller and peeler, he could not be a mandatory pick. He is because he can onsehot anyone with the right usage of map, regardless of hp, feats, revenge etc.

[Knight_Raime]

Goki is an other thing. I won't be surprised if they ban him from competitive play, he is disgustingly broken without a weakness.


Warlord has good feats, but so does others, juggernaut is available for others as well, so as a staller and peeler, he could not be a mandatory pick. He is because he can onsehot anyone with the right usage of map, regardless of hp, feats, revenge etc.

Goki isn't a mandatory pick without his unique T4. So he wouldn't be banned the feat would be. Far as goki himself goes theres a little about him that might be over tuned. But nothing that would force him to be banned.

Warlord is a mandatory pick because he does everything well. The only hero that comes close to that is goki. That's why competitively both him and goki are mandatory picks. That's 2 of the 4 slots taken. Then you have to take a ganker. The only two picks for ganking right now are Glad and Centurion. The only two other ganker heros in the game are hito and Shaman. Shaman isn't picked anymore because her ganks take far too long and she doesn't have any 100-0 ganks with Zhanhu. Hitokiri Only brings her infinite gank to the table and is a 1v1er otherwise both in kit and in feats. So she's not taken at least as far as the EU comp scene goes.

So now you have Warlord, goki and cent/glad. You can run both gankers and call it a day if you want. However that's not typically done and leaves us with the 4th slot. Currently that 4th slot is dominated by Nobushi and Zhanhu. Zhanhu Enables 100-0 ganks with the pair of gankers atm which is very valuable. He has his zone which atm is considered the best peel tool in the game. His cancel recovery times make him basically impossible to punish from an external situation unless you can some how force him to dodge into you. And his unblockable heavy is one of 2? or 3 unblockables that have really good hitboxes. A lot really don't.

Nobushi is the other strong 4th slot for several reasons. She still has a good roster of feats. She has insane peel like zhanhu. But unlike Zhanhu Nobushi is one of if not the only hero who is capable of being able to continue to peel for people even if said person has lots of revenge tags. This is because her peel moves (dodge side and forward lights) do very low physical damage and are mostly bleed which doesn't feed revenge. Unlike the other heros who have natural bleed hers are attached to some absurd ranged attacks. Nobushi is also very hard to punish even externally. This is because of her dodge/hidden stance recovery cancels. More to it than that though. Her guard will be essentially wherever you'd like it to be after you've done the recovery cancels. Meaning Nobushi can choose to keep her guard in one direction whilst dodging to a different direction. Which lets her block immediate follow ups.

She has an undodgable as well like zhanhu. Which forces people to have to dodge correctly against her. And because she has an undodgable she's actually a direct counter to zhanhu which makes her even more valuable. Zhanhu is only really safe because he can dodge cancel a lot. Well Nobushi's undodgables are heavies which is a lot of damage to begin with. But if Zhanhu is already bleeding that's even more insane. Finally She has her zone. Which is good peel that doubles as a very good defensive tool because if you position yourself properly and always have someone on your right they're going to be hit basically instantly anytime she tries to zone out of a bad situation. The kick itself can come from the zone. While it's not super great as a mix up tool for Nobushi herself it benefits her team thanks to the longer than average CC time it has. It has the highest stun value of any none chargable bash in the game actually. And because that means someone can eat damage from an Ally of Nobushi the kick has to be respected. And so that makes her undodgable heavy link in her zone even more valuable.

There's really a lot that can be said. But Nobushi at this time is considered to be THE best team fighter. Which is what the 4th slot is usually taken by. You have other heros that can go here like Kensei, Warmonger, BP, etc. But the heros below these 4 (WL, Goki Cen/glad, Zhanhu, and nobushi,) even if they can offer some of what they can do they do it markedly worse than them. Or they just can't do everything.

Anyway, Crashing charge OHKing people isn't as common in competitive as you would think. Just as him infinitely carrying people to a ledge. I don't watch every comp match but I do watch quite a bit. Scrims included. Crashing charge is icing on the cake. It is not why he's picked. If it ever got adjusted to be a reasonable move it will potentially effect his pick rate. But it's not going to remove him from comp. It certainly wouldn't make him weak. He's been ran for so long at this point that the devs would either need to power creep him hard or gut his kit. I just don't see either happening.

[Goat_of_Vermund]

Goki isn't a mandatory pick without his unique T4. So he wouldn't be banned the feat would be. Far as goki himself goes theres a little about him that might be over tuned. But nothing that would force him to be banned.

Warlord is a mandatory pick because he does everything well. The only hero that comes close to that is goki. That's why competitively both him and goki are mandatory picks. That's 2 of the 4 slots taken. Then you have to take a ganker. The only two picks for ganking right now are Glad and Centurion. The only two other ganker heros in the game are hito and Shaman. Shaman isn't picked anymore because her ganks take far too long and she doesn't have any 100-0 ganks with Zhanhu. Hitokiri Only brings her infinite gank to the table and is a 1v1er otherwise both in kit and in feats. So she's not taken at least as far as the EU comp scene goes.

So now you have Warlord, goki and cent/glad. You can run both gankers and call it a day if you want. However that's not typically done and leaves us with the 4th slot. Currently that 4th slot is dominated by Nobushi and Zhanhu. Zhanhu Enables 100-0 ganks with the pair of gankers atm which is very valuable. He has his zone which atm is considered the best peel tool in the game. His cancel recovery times make him basically impossible to punish from an external situation unless you can some how force him to dodge into you. And his unblockable heavy is one of 2? or 3 unblockables that have really good hitboxes. A lot really don't.

Nobushi is the other strong 4th slot for several reasons. She still has a good roster of feats. She has insane peel like zhanhu. But unlike Zhanhu Nobushi is one of if not the only hero who is capable of being able to continue to peel for people even if said person has lots of revenge tags. This is because her peel moves (dodge side and forward lights) do very low physical damage and are mostly bleed which doesn't feed revenge. Unlike the other heros who have natural bleed hers are attached to some absurd ranged attacks. Nobushi is also very hard to punish even externally. This is because of her dodge/hidden stance recovery cancels. More to it than that though. Her guard will be essentially wherever you'd like it to be after you've done the recovery cancels. Meaning Nobushi can choose to keep her guard in one direction whilst dodging to a different direction. Which lets her block immediate follow ups.

She has an undodgable as well like zhanhu. Which forces people to have to dodge correctly against her. And because she has an undodgable she's actually a direct counter to zhanhu which makes her even more valuable. Zhanhu is only really safe because he can dodge cancel a lot. Well Nobushi's undodgables are heavies which is a lot of damage to begin with. But if Zhanhu is already bleeding that's even more insane. Finally She has her zone. Which is good peel that doubles as a very good defensive tool because if you position yourself properly and always have someone on your right they're going to be hit basically instantly anytime she tries to zone out of a bad situation. The kick itself can come from the zone. While it's not super great as a mix up tool for Nobushi herself it benefits her team thanks to the longer than average CC time it has. It has the highest stun value of any none chargable bash in the game actually. And because that means someone can eat damage from an Ally of Nobushi the kick has to be respected. And so that makes her undodgable heavy link in her zone even more valuable.

There's really a lot that can be said. But Nobushi at this time is considered to be THE best team fighter. Which is what the 4th slot is usually taken by. You have other heros that can go here like Kensei, Warmonger, BP, etc. But the heros below these 4 (WL, Goki Cen/glad, Zhanhu, and nobushi,) even if they can offer some of what they can do they do it markedly worse than them. Or they just can't do everything.

Anyway, Crashing charge OHKing people isn't as common in competitive as you would think. Just as him infinitely carrying people to a ledge. I don't watch every comp match but I do watch quite a bit. Scrims included. Crashing charge is icing on the cake. It is not why he's picked. If it ever got adjusted to be a reasonable move it will potentially effect his pick rate. But it's not going to remove him from comp. It certainly wouldn't make him weak. He's been ran for so long at this point that the devs would either need to power creep him hard or gut his kit. I just don't see either happening.

I won't respond deeply to the comp part, I agree with it, and I now it to a degree, I watched Barak and Clutch making the tier list. I understand that Warlord can do many things, but his main powers are peeling, crashing charge gank, survivabilty, and fire flask not being banned for some reason in comp play. If the last one would be addressed along with crashing charge, I don't think he would be nearly as good at his job. He would still use unique tank feats, so for that role, he would be good, but not necessarily better than bp, Hito or jj (nor goki).

I don't want them to gut Warlord, but they should address this. We have 28 heroes in the game, it is wrong that only 6 of them may enter viable play (and honestly a bit boring to watch).

[Knight_Raime]

I won't respond deeply to the comp part, I agree with it, and I now it to a degree, I watched Barak and Clutch making the tier list. I understand that Warlord can do many things, but his main powers are peeling, crashing charge gank, survivabilty, and fire flask not being banned for some reason in comp play. If the last one would be addressed along with crashing charge, I don't think he would be nearly as good at his job. He would still use unique tank feats, so for that role, he would be good, but not necessarily better than bp, Hito or jj (nor goki).

I don't want them to gut Warlord, but they should address this. We have 28 heroes in the game, it is wrong that only 6 of them may enter viable play (and honestly a bit boring to watch).

Yeah I was going to suggest watching their tier list video since they go in depth for the popular picks and semi explain why some other heros are not picked. But it is quite an investment to watch time wise. So I did my best to explain some of it.
Flask isn't banned probably because of the amount of relevant heros who actually have access to it. They found it easier to just limit T4's to 1 per team. It's obnoxious to deal with but it's not on the same level as something like, Goki's T4 or Pugio.

Right, my point essentially wasn't that nerfing crashing charge wouldn't effect WL at all. But that because WL is so good at many other things and currently basically lacks competition in terms of how good he is at many other things aside from Goki nerfing crashing charge wouldn't make him any less of a go to/high pick hero. I find it much more likely that Goki's T4 gets it's duration nerfed significantly and goki himself drops from mandatory. He'll still probably be ran. But it would create a vacuum for more interesting picks.

I would argue that he's still be better than those you've named. BP really struggles with peeling which is probably the main reason he's not taken anymore. His wide hitboxes really only favor his right side. So he'd be "ok" as a team fighter but not a strong one. WL would still beat him out because WL can rotate faster with rush and peel for his allies better.

Hito is likely to never be taken despite how good she is unless people uncover something new about her or they re-evaluate how good her gank is. The only other way she'd be taken is if she has stupidly good synergy with any new inclusions or reworks that break their way into the meta. Her ability to kill people quickly is gotten already with Zhanhu and either other ganker. And those gankers provide more general value than she does. WL is a better team fighter than her so he'd still be picked above her for that.

JJ is an interesting case. He seems to have strong synergy with Goki. It may be possible that JJ gets ran in comp play depending on how long it takes the devs to respond to Goki's T4 since JJ's inclusion would be based completely on how relevant goki is (remains.) If JJ comes into the meta he will replace Zhanhu. The only other outcome would be dropping Warlord having Goki take his place and JJ taking 4th slot. Wether that happens or not is going to depend on how much the synergy of the two would be valued.

I don't think there's anything wrong with the current comp rn. 4th slot has a lot of variety. IMO (and I will note it is a fairly ignorant opinion,) I think the meta feels so rigid for EU teams at the moment because of how they prefer to do things. You see a different meta with more variety in picks in NA comp teams. This isn't to say we can't have more viable picks or shouldn't try for it. Even in the video tier list there was still a good handful of heros that were mentioned as viable comp picks. So it's not like it's only those 6 heros are good. It's just that those 6 heros have a big influence on the meta. And because synergy is important this is why things can be rigid at some points.