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  1. #1

    Couple questions for the Ubi's

    Ubi's I ask you this because for at least one of you it's easier to get a rock solid answer.

    Overwatch says to weapon and skill damage.
    Glass cannon says to all damage.

    What is ALL damage in this game??

    If its only weapon and skill damage, why does overwatch not say all damage as well?
    Or why doesn't glass cannon say, weapon and skill instead of all damage?

    Mostly I just wanna know does glass cannon increase explosive damage as well?
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  2. #2
    Merphee's Avatar Volunteer Moderator
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    All damage is all damage: weapon, skill, explosive, hazard, melee, fall.
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  3. #3
    Originally Posted by Merphee Go to original post
    All damage is all damage: weapon, skill, explosive, hazard, melee, fall.
    Thanks
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  4. #4
    Originally Posted by Merphee Go to original post
    All damage is all damage: weapon, skill, explosive, hazard, melee, fall.
    I made a build to test this with. The build:
    4 Empress
    (I know the 4th doesn't give anything but I just changed my waveform to another empress)
    1 Wyvern
    1 China bag perfect shock&awe

    The only thing I changed was the chest talent.
    So in any other case its the same build.

    The numbers are yellow/crit hits.
    -----------------------------------------------------------
    Glass cannon:
    All damage you deal is amplified by 25%.
    All damage you take is amplified by 50%

    First mortar: 4,402,721 (25% all damage)
    2nd mortar: 5,283,266 (+ shock&awe)
    ----------------------‐-----------------------------------
    Kinetic Momentum:
    Stacks increase your total skill damage by 1%.
    Up to 15 stacks per skill.

    First mortar: 4,578,831 (30% skill damage)
    2nd mortar: 5,283,266 (+ shock&awe)
    ----------------------------------------------------------
    Shot 1
    GC : 4,402,721
    KM: 4,578,831
    5% skill damage is worth more then 25% explosion damage?
    Or explosion damage isn't in ALL damage?

    Shot 2
    GC : 5,283,266
    KM: 5,283,266

    Is this the cap??
    Or is 5% skill damage equal to 25% explosion damage all of a sudden?
    If so why is the first shot higher on KM?

    (I use a character without a leveled watch)
    So it could be that another 10% is useless?
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  5. #5
    Well thats like +10% Skill Efficiency....not really sure what that means but it sounds cool.

    All damage would be cool if that means even shooting an enemies weakpoints results in more powerful explosions to hurt them with.
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  6. #6
    CategoryTheory's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by xJdKxZomBiE Go to original post
    Well thats like +10% Skill Efficiency....not really sure what that means but it sounds cool.
    +10% skill efficiency gives you all of +10% skill damage, +10% skill health, +10% skill haste and +10% skill duration. (Or at least this is what I remember seeing when I checked it a week or two ago.)

    Originally Posted by DutchLMB4ever Go to original post
    Glass cannon:
    First mortar: 4,402,721 (25% all damage)
    ...
    Kinetic Momentum:
    First mortar: 4,578,831 (30% skill damage)
    ...
    5% skill damage is worth more then 25% explosion damage?
    It sounds to me as if you may be thinking that explosive damage generated by a skill should get +25% for being skill damage and another +25% for being explosive damage when you use Glass Cannon. But no, Glass Cannon simply multiplies any damage from any source by 25% before applying it to the enemy. They describe it as "all damage" to indicate that the buff is not limited to damage from certain sources, such as just damage from skills or just damage from weapons.

    If I've misunderstood you, you might be able to clarify what you're thinking by showing the base damage and buff(s) and the calculation that produces the damage you believe you should be getting.
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  7. #7
    Originally Posted by CategoryTheory Go to original post
    It sounds to me as if you may be thinking that explosive damage generated by a skill should get +25% for being skill damage and another +25% for being explosive damage when you use Glass Cannon. But no, Glass Cannon simply multiplies any damage from any source by 25% before applying it to the enemy. They describe it as "all damage" to indicate that the buff is not limited to damage from certain sources, such as just damage from skills.
    That is what I was thinking yes.
    It would be fair considering you get 50% incoming damage. (Even fall damage lol)

    This is just my opinion so it doesn't matter.
    But
    If you get 50% incoming damage the whole time.
    You should do the most damage out of all talents.
    Damage PER type.
    Weapon/Skill/Explosive/Hazard/Melee.

    You should do more damage then:
    Obliterate (not the same)
    Kinetic momentum (not less)
    And others like vigilance, combined arms, etc.

    There should be a hard choice to make here.
    Dps players should choose:
    Or i use Obliterate without a downside.
    Or 15% more damage then obliterate
    but with 50% incoming damage.

    Skill players should choose:
    Or I use Kinetic Momentum without a downside.
    Or 15% more damage then kinetic momentum but with 50% incoming damage.

    Right now it's an easy choice IMO.

    Why go for Glass cannon as a dps player if you do the same damage within emptying 1 mag?
    Without the 50% incoming damage.

    Why go for Glass cannon as a skill player?
    If Kinetic does more damage within 15 seconds?
    Without the 50% incoming damage.
    It's a no as well, unless you use a capacitor.
    Which a lot don't use because they use insync.

    Or have a hybrid Technician build with:
    A Capacitor.
    Momento bag.
    1 Fenris with skill damage. (Red core)
    1 Wyvern.
    3 Empress.

    Anyway another paragraph of complaining.
    Which doesn't matter lol.
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  8. #8
    You use glass cannon on a skill build if you also want to run in sync and shoot the gun a lot. Gun damage is also jacked up 25% and won't be with kinetic momentum.
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  9. #9
    Originally Posted by chicagolongball Go to original post
    You use glass cannon on a skill build if you also want to run in sync and shoot the gun a lot. Gun damage is also jacked up 25% and won't be with kinetic momentum.
    I shoot a lot to keep capacitor stacks up.
    Insync users hide and shoot once per 5sec.
    Before you get mad it's a joke.

    And I know that it brings up weapon damage.
    My opinion is just that for 50% incoming damage.
    Your outgoing damage should do more damage then every other damage type talent.
    So more then kinetic. (Not less damage)
    And more then obliterate. (Not the same damage)
    But doesn't matter.
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  10. #10
    CategoryTheory's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by DutchLMB4ever Go to original post
    Insync users hide and shoot once per 5sec.
    Before you get mad it's a joke.
    Yes, but it does appear to betray a misunderstanding of In Sync. You do realize that it's a weapon talent just as much as a skill talent, right? Though the most common use is probably to buff skill damage output for builds geared towards maximizing that, it's just as reasonable to use it on an all-red build with minimal skill damage in order to buff weapon damage. All you need is to drop a turret somewhere that it can hit an enemy every few seconds and there's your 30% buff for your weapon. (The chest armour talent Spark is another more obvious case of this kind of use.)

    My opinion is just that for 50% incoming damage.
    Your outgoing damage should do more damage then every other damage type talent.
    First, given that the game designers are clearly quite competent at balancing the game* and the amount of play testing this game has had, it's very unlikely that this talent is as unbalanced as you seem to think it is. If it were that bad, nobody would use it, yet we have people on these very forums saying it's great as it is. That should be a hint that if you don't find it great you either don't know how to use it well or possibly you don't even know what effect it's having on your build.

    (* Many don't think so, but their lack of ability to identify all the clever things that have been done to balance the game kind of indicates why they are not competent to come to a judgement on this.)

    Second, it probably does indeed do more than any other damage talent under some conditions. If you understand things like weapon damage versus total weapon damage the issue is obvious. If you're not sure if you understand, try to demonstrate the conditions under which +15% TWD increases damage output more than +30% Wdmg. If you can't, you almost certainly don't understand how much Glass Cannon is increasing your damage.

    So more then kinetic. (Not less damage)
    Uh, even ignoring that Glass Cannon could increase skill damage more than Kinetic if they were equal, how is Glass Cannon's 25% buff less than Kinetic's 15% buff?

    And more then obliterate. (Not the same damage)
    If you don't understand the advantage of not having to build and maintain a stack, I don't think you've played Obliterate much, if at all, outside the range.

    Camp White Oak is invaded this week. Why don't you gear up with Obliterated, record a video of your run, and go back and work out approximately what your overall buff from Obliterate really is?

    (But also, even at full 25% from Obliterate, if you have anything else adding TWD, which you likely do, it's doing less than Glass Cannon's separate multiplier. If your response to that statement is not, "Ah, I see why that is," then, again, you don't understand the buff you're getting from Glass Cannon. You can't just compare two numbers alone; see the "why 15% TWD increases damage more than 30% Wdmg" bit above.)
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