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  1. #21
    CategoryTheory's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by Riflemania Go to original post
    Oh and i find best thing by far for a rifle build is Stability + Accuracy over CHC + CHD........I ain't no number cruncher but you deffo feel the difference.
    I felt this way too, but the Boomerang talent and, to a lesser degree, the inherent CHD on rifles pushed me to try high CHC/CHD builds. This made me realize that rifles actually have variable stability: slowing your fire rate increases effective stability becuase you're giving the rifle more time to return to its original aim point after the recoil. So these days I'm quite happy with slightly higher (maximum) ROF in trade for some stability: I can get the stability I need at long range and increase my DPS at shorter ranges.

    Originally Posted by Riflemania Go to original post
    Yep, that's why i said situational, they are great in open world but useless in lets say The Summit solo.....or any close quarter missions solo.....
    I think they'd be ok in close quarter missions that are corridor shooters, since there you're not going to be moving much (except forward, from time to time) anyway. District Union Arena and Federal Emergency Bunker would be examples of these.

    But yeah, in places like Summit I really need to be able to reposition frequenly in order to keep things moving while avoiding too much damage.

    But overall out of pure lazyness i stick with the Fox's kneepads, does not matter what you are doing in the game they just work.
    Yeah, that's more or less my feeling on it. I wouldn't call it lazyness, I'd just call it wanting to take more advantage of movement.

    Originally Posted by Cadillac-Jack Go to original post
    Yeah i'm with you on the CQB, but then again there is no way in hell i'm using my rifle build in close quarters (not with the 1886) the Pestilence though maybe. because of the poison tick spread.
    Well, I find the Pestilence must be used at closer range than I'd normally work a rifle. But this is relative, of course. My "close" range is 20-30 m, which for Sircowdog1 is "long" range. :-P

    Originally Posted by Riflemania Go to original post
    I'm just a lazy bugger, M1A & Police M4 for when things get close or some hidden straggler...works a treat in open area and CQB.
    If you're not using it constantly, consider an SMG with Unwavering. As well as faster reload, the +300% weapon handling gets you better-than-AR accuracy and stability, so I use a Vector at AR ranges for bursts of cleaning up targets.
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  2. #22
    Cadillac-Jack's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by CategoryTheory Go to original post
    Well, I find the Pestilence must be used at closer range than I'd normally work a rifle. But this is relative, of course. My "close" range is 20-30 m, which for Sircowdog1 is "long" range. :-P.
    My rifle range is anywhere from 54 m to 90+ m for me Rifle builds are long range and thats where i utilize them most.

    My pestilence i use anywhere from 10 m upto 50 m land enough shots and the tick wipes the NPC's before they even get half that distance,

    Funny enough some higher armour builds like true patriot can dish out way higher ticks upto 1.2 million odd.

    My reload speed on the Pesty is approx 4 seconds with gunner every 3rd reload is 50% faster. The damage on my pestilence without bonuses like Sawyers/Vigilance and the tick is at a base 100K.


    The only builds i touch or spec specifically CHC and CHD are Solokov SMG/AR builds.

    My current AR/SMG build is sitting at

    AR 52% CHC and 164 CHD
    SMG 60% CHC and 164 CHD

    Without any bonuses.
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  3. #23
    Originally Posted by CategoryTheory Go to original post

    So has anybody got any other thoughts about what one might put in there?
    How does this look, or change (if it does at all) with Glass Canon?
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  4. #24
    Originally Posted by CategoryTheory Go to original post
    In case you're wondering what I prefer, I go for TWD boosts as well, but with Composure (+15% TWD instantly when in cover) and either Spotter (+15% TWD on pulsed enemies, if I'm using Technician and its Linked Laser Pointer), or Spark (skill damage procs 20s of +15% TWD—I carry around a turret just to plink enemies for this). I've also tried Obliterate, but I find it too hard to maintain the stack, especially when using Pestilence which has almost a 5 second reload time.
    Pretty sure Spotter is Amplified Damage (same as Glass Cannon), which is a step better than TWD in terms of how it stacks with other bonuses.

    Regarding Sawyers, I use them primarily on my Mantis headhunter build - the damage at full stacks is definitely slightly more than Fox's or other all-red options when tested at the range, the bonus to defense is nice, and I don't need to worry so much about having to move around when 95% of incoming fire is directed at my decoy rather than me.
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  5. #25
    Oatiecrumble's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by CategoryTheory Go to original post
    If you're not using it constantly, consider an SMG with Unwavering. As well as faster reload, the +300% weapon handling gets you better-than-AR accuracy and stability, so I use a Vector at AR ranges for bursts of cleaning up targets.
    The other main reason i use a AR over a SMG in my rifle build is that a AR has more uses than a SMG......Warhounds etc etc.

    I have a build that uses SMG/Shotty which clears The Summit very very fast with ease.

    I have over 10+ fully god rolled builds (not boasting before anyone says) for all encounters in the game but my main is my rifle build because i find them so much fun.

    The only builds i don't have is:

    LMG build
    Status effect build

    Reason being is i hate LMG's and Status effect builds are not my thing.
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  6. #26
    Sircowdog1's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by CategoryTheory Go to original post

    As far as replacing Fox's with a brand that provides weapon-specific damage, that's just going to come out worse than Groupo did above since we're now looking at 10% more weapon damage rather than 16% more (expected average) weapon damage.
    Brand piece, like a Fenris knee, would be 10% AR damage and whatever would be in place of the Fox's Prayer's 8% DtoC. So 10% weapon damage + 12% CHD if we're sticking with the CHD comparison.

    Obviously if you're using a rifle, you're getting 10% rifle damage + 8 DtoC, so there's a clear winning there. But if you're using Fox's Prayer and NOT using a rifle, then there's more of an argument.

    Personally I cringe a bit whenever I see someone using an AR with Fox's Prayer AND Contractor's Gloves. It's a holdover from before those two pieces were nerfed, and I have a lot of doubt that they net a damage increase today.
     1 people found this helpful
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  7. #27
    Cadillac-Jack's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by Sircowdog1 Go to original post
    Personally I cringe a bit whenever I see someone using an AR with Fox's Prayer AND Contractor's Gloves. It's a holdover from before those two pieces were nerfed, and I have a lot of doubt that they net a damage increase today.
    This is one major thing i agree and am with you totally on .

    My AR build consists of

    3 Solokov
    1 Fenris chest (obliterate)
    1 Groupo/ or Walker Harris.
    1 Memento

    I have approx 50 to 55% CHC and 159 to 165% CHD on my AR which also lets me use stability mods (heck i don't even use the +20 mag) because it melts NPC's on Heroic from red to Elite to named in less than 30 bullets (for the most part) i have an SMG as back up and that has 60% CHC and anywhere from 164% CHD to 170+ CHD depending.

    Fox's/Contractors are not needed really.
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  8. #28
    Sircowdog1's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by Cadillac-Jack Go to original post
    Fox's/Contractors are not needed really.
    Fox's knees for a rifle build, for sure. Especially when you've got Glass Cannon on the chest and DtoC on the weapon itself.

    Same for a Pestilence build and Sawyers. I see no reason to not use Contractor's Gloves and Sawyers for that build. Would be a VERY strong combo.
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  9. #29
    I built a comparison calculator for just this purpose [sans HS or Talents, but I can add those in manually].. let me know what builds you want to compare and I'll try to run some on my lunch tomorrow if I have time [up to 4 builds, with 5 weapons]

    I normally assume 70% of my targets will be out of cover, but I can adjust that too.
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  10. #30
    Cadillac-Jack's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by Sircowdog1 Go to original post
    Fox's knees for a rifle build, for sure. Especially when you've got Glass Cannon on the chest and DtoC on the weapon itself.

    Same for a Pestilence build and Sawyers. I see no reason to not use Contractor's Gloves and Sawyers for that build. Would be a VERY strong combo.
    I was specifically talking about AR/SMG builds with that comment.

    With LMG builds (depending then yeah Contractors gloves) most of the time. and Rifle builds Foxes for alot of the time, but not totally necessary.

    As for G cannon never needed to use it, don't see the point in that talent (thats a personal thing by the way) Vigilance is only 5% less(on the perfect version) and without the downsides, ergo no increased damage taken.
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