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  1. #221
    Originally Posted by N3mB0t Go to original post
    what i take from this thread is that some people overthink stuff too much , and in trade play too litlle , and sometimes experience beats math , just saying.
    I can't play the game when I'm at work or hanging with the family, but I can sneak in some analytics

    It's a silly proposition though, this isn't a myopic Math vs Experience battle. It's like saying you can only use Sabermetrics OR Scouting in baseball - you use both to come out ahead, instead of handicapping yourself for no good reason. The math is the math - how you use it is up to you, but the math doesn't lie [if correct], and in our case, it's how the game translates your play - so it's really all math in the end

    Nobody is saying only use Math and don't consider gameplay. You also need to consider things like how often you land headshots, what type of enemies you have, which enemies give you the most trouble, what your goals are, how you approach sets, etc - but the Math helps you make better choices based on those things. If I can figure out a way to get 5-10% more damage on my lunch break, why wouldn't I? Not really going to make much difference in play, but I enjoy analytics and min/maxing, so I'll keep doing it and chime in here for others that do too ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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  2. #222
    Oatiecrumble's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by CategoryTheory Go to original post
    That DPS can easily be 30% or so, if you have a look at an Ongoing Directive build that was recently posted to this forum.
    I'm pretty sure that boils down too "Decent build that synergizes well"
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  3. #223
    CategoryTheory's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by Riflemania Go to original post
    I'm pretty sure that boils down too "Decent build that synergizes well"
    Right. But you said that in this game, "most of it being quite obvious." If it were so obvious, nobody would be putting status effect buffs on Ongoing Directive. (Ongoing Directive is clearly, though not at all obviously, a weapon damage gearset.)

    How do you get a "decent build that synergizes well"? Well, in part you do the math. Or I suppose you could do a lot of tedious experimentation in the firing range to get the damage parts of it worked out.
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  4. #224
    Oatiecrumble's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by CategoryTheory Go to original post
    Right. But you said that in this game, "most of it being quite obvious." If it were so obvious, nobody would be putting status effect buffs on Ongoing Directive. (Ongoing Directive is clearly, though not at all obviously, a weapon damage gearset.)

    How do you get a "decent build that synergizes well"? Well, in part you do the math. Or I suppose you could do a lot of tedious experimentation in the firing range to get the damage parts of it worked out.
    Ain't that the best part of playing the game, experimenting with items, getting a feel of how it works in the outside world of the game, getting to know what fits our playstyle best.

    I would rather have a build/skills that fits my playstyle rather than a build that is guaranteed to be the best one by 10% +

    Experimenting is what makes this game so good rather than someone saying "Try this build, mathmatically it's the best you can get"
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  5. #225
    N3mB0t's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by LateNiteDelight Go to original post
    I can't play the game when I'm at work or hanging with the family, but I can sneak in some analytics

    It's a silly proposition though, this isn't a myopic Math vs Experience battle. It's like saying you can only use Sabermetrics OR Scouting in baseball - you use both to come out ahead, instead of handicapping yourself for no good reason. The math is the math - how you use it is up to you, but the math doesn't lie [if correct], and in our case, it's how the game translates your play - so it's really all math in the end

    Nobody is saying only use Math and don't consider gameplay. You also need to consider things like how often you land headshots, what type of enemies you have, which enemies give you the most trouble, what your goals are, how you approach sets, etc - but the Math helps you make better choices based on those things. If I can figure out a way to get 5-10% more damage on my lunch break, why wouldn't I? Not really going to make much difference in play, but I enjoy analytics and min/maxing, so I'll keep doing it and chime in here for others that do too ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
    never said theory crafting is bad , only said it should not be the main thing you do in game , some people in this thread probably only play one hour for every 10 theorizing , i do the exact oposite and usualy fine tune the builds based off my experience playing and not because of numbers , works wonders for me, 16 fully functional maxed out builds ready go at any time with zero equations made , just some rough game knowledge of how things work and knowing what i want and need from playing with them.
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  6. #226
    Originally Posted by N3mB0t Go to original post
    never said theory crafting is bad , only said it should not be the main thing you do in game , some people in this thread probably only play one hour for every 10 theorizing , i do the exact oposite and usualy fine tune the builds based off my experience playing and not because of numbers , works wonders for me, 16 fully functional maxed out builds ready go at any time with zero equations made , just some rough game knowledge of how things work and knowing what i want and need from playing with them.
    I'm lucky if I can hit double digit gaming hours in a week, usually I'm closer to 5

    So when I'm in game, I'm playing. I can do all the calculations on variations on paper, then fine tune based on how it performs in the field.
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  7. #227
    Originally Posted by N3mB0t Go to original post
    what i take from this thread is that some people overthink stuff too much , and in trade play too litlle , and sometimes experience beats math , just saying.
    This!
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  8. #228
    Imagine_Brata's Avatar Senior Member
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    I have never calculated mathematical calculation strategies and damage on paper before I do CP4 etc. and it has gone well so far.
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  9. #229
    Sircowdog1's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by CategoryTheory Go to original post
    And who has ever argued otherwise on this thread?

    It was just a general statement rather than an arguing point.
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  10. #230
    CategoryTheory's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by Riflemania Go to original post
    Ain't that the best part of playing the game, experimenting with items, getting a feel of how it works in the outside world of the game, getting to know what fits our playstyle best.
    That's one of the best parts, sure. But many people find it more fun to look at and think about the gear, how it can be combined and what the interactions woudl be, rather than just slapping random items into the slots and playing a bit. That's exactly what I'm doing here.

    Experimenting is what makes this game so good rather than someone saying "Try this build, mathmatically it's the best you can get"
    Um..."try this build" is a suggestion to experiment, dude.

    Originally Posted by Imagine_Brata Go to original post
    I have never calculated mathematical calculation strategies and damage on paper before I do CP4 etc. and it has gone well so far.
    And I've never used an SMG with a talent other than Unwavering, and it's gone well so far.

    Nobody's said that it can't go well without this. Just that you can do better with it.

    You can get across town in an old jalopy just fine, too. Some people enjoy doing it in a new car, though, for more speed, more safety, or just because they enjoy new cars. You shouldn't tell people not to buy a new car just because using an old car worked for you; what they enjoy is their decision, not yours.

    Originally Posted by Sircowdog1 Go to original post
    It was just a general statement rather than an arguing point.
    Yeah, when someone says "X!" and someone else replies just "Y!", that often comes across as a disagreement. Maybe if you guys who don't disagree with the original point when you provide what can be read as an alternative, rather than a complement, you could say so, and that would help avoid coming across as if you disagree. E.g., "While X is is helpful, Y is also helpful and you should not use X as a reason not to do or take into account Y."
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