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  1. #1

    Map review server overhaul

    1. 3 minutes isn't enough time to learn the map and drive a time on it to give a decent enough feedback.
    2. The server throughout the day consists of roughly 10% gold and above, 60% silvers and 30% bronzes, meaning the representation we're getting in the voting system itself is primarily the opinions of people who aren't as good at the game. While that's fine in and of itself, as everyone has the right to vote in the server, we're not getting fair representations, and thus the votes are skewed towards subjectivity and not as it should be, objectivity.
    3. Spite voting, these same players won't think twice about giving you 1 star because they aren't able to complete the map once in 3 minutes, or spend 2 minutes 53 seconds to complete a run on a 35 second map. People are putting upwards of 50 hours into their maps just for someone to treat it with complete disrespect because they feel their skills have been challenged. This I would say is the key issue we're currently facing.
    4. Rigging the votes. If you're popular, if you're a streamer or if you're active in twitch chats, there's a very high chance that you'll get track of the day. Why? Simply invite the people want during a quiet period in the map review server (usually middle of the night and uploading it for 1 or 2 friends at a time) and farm 4/5 stars. What's the point in a democratic voting system that's designed to objectively find the best maps for nadeo to pick from when 90% of the maps with 4 stars and above are just friends giving other friends 5 stars.

    All of the above points collectively together is making the map review server literal hell. At any hour of the day you can guarantee that a lot of the players in there are 1. French 2. Bronze ranked players and 3. Recently created accounts. You can guarantee that one of them will tell you the map needs more signs and that they can't find the way even though it's super obvious. You can also guarantee that actual feedback and information that would help improve your map is basically non existent because everyone is too busy jerking each other off just to get better ratings, and being nice/complimentary about mediocre maps takes precedence over being focused on constructive criticism.

    The suggestions I have are these:
    1. Add requirements. If you're a brand new player with an account created this week, prove that you can play the game first, training maps all ATs as a minimum requirement to vote in the map review server or something similar.
    2. People who spite vote, 3 or 5 one star votes in a row and timed out from voting for a set amount of time. Voting karma where the more positive reviews you give the more valuable your feedback and rating becomes could assist in this.
    3. Extending the map review timer to 5 minutes - something so simple yet more time to learn the maps to try to understand what lines are good would help a lot of these players who clearly need that time. So many creative, experimental or different maps instantly drop down the list of priority just for trying to push the envelope. The combination of that and new players leaves very little room for both unique and lol mappers to shine.
    4. If the above isn't plausible, a complete rework/overhaul of the map review system, so that it isn't abuseable, and that it is 100% fair across the board, from totd authors to 1st time mappers.
     5 people found this helpful

  2. #2
    Even though the tone of the post comes across mostly frustrated and thus maybe doesn't say it the best. I 100% agree with the sentiment. Map review is a fantastic tool to let anyone play their maps, give people the chance to improve and maybe even get their track featured in totd/cotd. However it is doing almost none of these things properly. Some people upload their map over and over, not allowing others to get their maps in in a reasonable time. Others just go on there to downvote every map that isnt theirs to improve their own chances.

    Something certainly needs to be done to fix this. Restrictions to uploading the same map in short timespans, allowing comments at the vote for feedback. Weight on votes based on time spent in map review and possibly trophy rank. And the ability to play a map offline before you vote I think are all changes that would make it a nicer place.
     3 people found this helpful

  3. #3
    Fowst2010's Avatar Banned
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    Nov 2010
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    238
    Hey you got a couple of good points there. As someone who always loved mapping difficult tracks, and got my fair share of hate for it, I think most importantly, players should finish the map they're reviewing or get the gold / silver medal to be able to vote. Author would be too much to expect.
    You had to finish a track to vote on PPO, TMX's Map Review server back in the day.
    If you want to know the details on how PPO worked, here's a screenshot from the website, there will be more text below:




    I really enjoyed playing there and getting to know all the greats, having friendly interactions and honest feedback between mappers and (almost) without scrubs. You see, anyone who wasn't a mapper wouldn't be playing there. The time for each map was either 6 minutes or depended on the map's length, I can't really remember.
    Both would be good options for trackmania map review, for example on a 15-20s track, the 3 minute time limit is fine, on a 20-30s track, a time limit of 4 minutes, on a 30-40s track 5 minutes and on a 40-60 second track and above 6 or 7 minutes. It's just an example of dynamic time, it used to be a thing as a mod.

    I'm not sure if I want to get back into mapping, if even the editor is hidden behind a paywall. Seeing what other duos of mappers produce nowadays, with all the custom blocks... great possibilities, but it also seems like an awful lot of work to make it look really good scenery wise. Too much work not to get paid for. You see I think they should give the map editor to all the free players out there, so they can create content (maps) rather than pay for the game, but that's just my 2 cents on it...
     1 people found this helpful

  4. #4
    I agree with all of what BerzerkTM said. Theres problems with the review system.
    3 mins is way too short.

    For me the biggeat issue is that the voting system is not objective but subjective... Someone can work so hard on a track, have a good design, a good track and people can put them 1 star. Its ok to not like every maps or style. But theres many good tracks that doesnt get enough credit and this is sad
     1 people found this helpful

  5. #5
    AR_Phoebe's Avatar Trackmania Moderator
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    Apr 2020
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    Norway
    Posts
    27
    Hi guys, thank you so much for the feedback!

    Especially the point made about 3 minutes being too short for Royal Review,

    Love,
    Phoebe

  6. #6
    Montetatil's Avatar Member
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    Nov 2020
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    Isere, france
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    121
    Originally Posted by berzerk
    3. Extending the map review timer to 5 minutes
    Instead of this, why not implement a "proportional timout" feature for every room setting (even map review server):
    a tickbox named "timeout proportional to author time" + a multiplier prompt, auto-calculates it instead of manual set time.

    for instance,for a 4X multiplier, it could calculate as following:
    -a 45 second track -> 3min timeout
    -a 5 min RPG -> 20min timeout
    -a 20 second short -> 1'20 timeout

    This feature would make the game more comfortable to play, especially when the rooms consist in mixed-time maps (whose the map review server is part of)
    Furthermore, it's very easy to implement.

    Originally Posted by fowst
    I think most importantly, players should finish the map they're reviewing or get the gold / silver medal to be able to vote
    exactly, like what is possible in pyPlanet. for instance, take a look at TMNF RPG servers. The map HAS TO be finished for voting, whatever its length.

    and thanks for letting us know this TMX system. it looks to be completely fitting the problem. I played TM since original and never knew this... why isn't it implemented in TM2 exchange and TM2020 exchange?
     1 people found this helpful

  7. #7
    Instead of giving each map a short time limit on map review, it would be better to have each map on its own server. Here's a concept I wrote for that more than half a year ago:

    https://forums.ubisoft.com/showthrea...its-own-server

    With such a concept you would allow for extensive feedback if necessary and would always have enough time for every map.