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  1. #1

    If this is true NERF or BUFF one of these talents!!

    A buddy of mine is using a bomber turret build lately.
    He tried using Glass Cannon like me.
    And he tried kinetic momentum as well.
    He says he doesn't see a difference in damage....

    I haven't found the same chest with kinetic instead of glass cannon for my build yet.
    So I cannot test this.
    Maybe one of the players on this forum already know.

    Anyway from what I know:
    Glass Cannon increase 30% ALL damage.
    Kinetic momentum is 15% SKILL damage.

    In any case Glass Cannon should do AT LEAST 15% more damage.
    But from how I see it.
    (And even if I'm wrong it should be like that)
    The 30% ALL damage means:
    30% weapon damage
    30% melee damage (don't matter I know)
    30% skill damage
    (And very important with builds like this)
    30% explosive damage

    In this case glass cannon should do 45% more damage then kinetic right??
    Kinetic is only 15% skill damage.
    GC is both 30% skill and 30% explosive damage.

    I also would get it that 30% explosive damage isn't the same as skill damage but still.
    It has the 30% explosive damage that kinetic doesn't give.

    So for the devs if this is true...
    Nerf kinetic momentum to 7,5%
    or
    Buff Glass cannon with another 15%
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  2. #2
    Originally Posted by DutchLMB4ever Go to original post
    A buddy of mine is using a bomber turret build lately.
    He tried using Glass Cannon like me.
    And he tried kinetic momentum as well.
    He says he doesn't see a difference in damage....

    I haven't found the same chest with kinetic instead of glass cannon for my build yet.
    So I cannot test this.
    Maybe one of the players on this forum already know.

    Anyway from what I know:
    Glass Cannon increase 30% ALL damage.
    Kinetic momentum is 15% SKILL damage.

    In any case Glass Cannon should do AT LEAST 15% more damage.
    But from how I see it.
    (And even if I'm wrong it should be like that)
    The 30% ALL damage means:
    30% weapon damage
    30% melee damage (don't matter I know)
    30% skill damage
    (And very important with builds like this)
    30% explosive damage

    In this case glass cannon should do 45% more damage then kinetic right??
    Kinetic is only 15% skill damage.
    GC is both 30% skill and 30% explosive damage.

    I also would get it that 30% explosive damage isn't the same as skill damage but still.
    It has the 30% explosive damage that kinetic doesn't give.

    So for the devs if this is true...
    Nerf kinetic momentum to 7,5%
    or
    Buff Glass cannon with another 15%
    the Skill and Explosive Damage might not stack and will pick whichever is higher.
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  3. #3
    Noxious81's Avatar Senior Member
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    Jul 2016
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    Kinetic Momentum is a bit stronger than described in your post:

    "When in combat, each skill generates a stack while active or not on cooldown.
    Stacks increase your total skill damage by 1% and total skill repair by 2%. Up to 15 stacks per skill. Lost when on cooldown."


    So as we are now talking about an increase of 30% in Skill Damage (totally stacked of course), this already closes the gap a bit towards the Glass Canon. Additionally, only the perfect version of the Glass Canon offers an increase of 30%, the normal version sits at 25%.

    So a fully stacked Kinetic Momentum adds more damage to your skills than a Glass Canon.

    Buuuuut – the Glass Canon also increases your Weapon Damage by 25%. Something Kinetic Momentum can not offer. The flipside of course is that with a Glass Canon also the incoming damage is increased by 50%. Which is a lot for a squishy skill build. So there are pros and cons that basically leave the player to decide whether they want to let the skills do the shooting or they also want to stack a bit of Weapon Damage.
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  4. #4
    Originally Posted by Noxious81 Go to original post
    Kinetic Momentum is a bit stronger than described in your post:

    "When in combat, each skill generates a stack while active or not on cooldown.
    Stacks increase your total skill damage by 1% and total skill repair by 2%. Up to 15 stacks per skill. Lost when on cooldown."


    So as we are now talking about an increase of 30% in Skill Damage (totally stacked of course), this already closes the gap a bit towards the Glass Canon. Additionally, only the perfect version of the Glass Canon offers an increase of 30%, the normal version sits at 25%.

    So a fully stacked Kinetic Momentum adds more damage to your skills than a Glass Canon.

    Buuuuut – the Glass Canon also increases your Weapon Damage by 25%. Something Kinetic Momentum can not offer. The flipside of course is that with a Glass Canon also the incoming damage is increased by 50%. Which is a lot for a squishy skill build. So there are pros and cons that basically leave the player to decide whether they want to let the skills do the shooting or they also want to stack a bit of Weapon Damage.
    Oh yea I forgot about the perfect version...
    so it's even worse now lol.
    So kinetic has 30% and not really a downside.
    And glass is 25% with the worst downside.

    We need nerfs and buffs here devs ASAP!!!
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  5. #5
    Originally Posted by Avalanche81 Go to original post
    the Skill and Explosive Damage might not stack and will pick whichever is higher.
    Then it shouldn't say all damage but to some damage lol
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  6. #6
    I suggest googling glass cannon, you're simply guessing how it affects damage calculations when many people have gone to the trouble of figuring out the exact maths and writing it up for anyone interested.
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  7. #7
    Originally Posted by the_Kettle Go to original post
    I suggest googling glass cannon, you're simply guessing how it affects damage calculations when many people have gone to the trouble of figuring out the exact maths and writing it up for anyone interested.
    Oke I did this and now I'm even more confused.
    Glass cannon should give a Buff to everything?!?
    - Weapon damage
    - Weapon talent damage (capacitor stacks)
    - Damage to armor
    - Damage to targets out of cover
    - Crit damage
    - Headshot damage
    - Skill damage
    - Gear talent damage (shock&awe, waveform)
    - Explosive damage (China light, Grupo and Demolitionist itself)
    - Status effect damage (Bleed&fire)
    - Melee damage

    Then how is it the same damage??
    There should be a huge HUGE damage difference right?

    It would make more sense if its like that considering you gain 50-60% incoming damage!!!

    Again devs Buff GC but now to how it supposed to be.
    Or
    Nerf kinetic to 7,5 for each skill with a total of 15%
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  8. #8
    Doesn't buff each thing individually? Just calculates total damage and THEN buffs that?
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  9. #9
    Originally Posted by the_Kettle Go to original post
    Doesn't buff each thing individually? Just calculates total damage and THEN buffs that?
    I really don't know now.
    It was probably too powerful how it was intended.
    And then they made it so it's basically weaksauce.
    Especially if you get 50-60% incoming damage.
    I think its only weapon and skill damage.
    Because there is no way they do around the same damage if everything gets a Buff on GC and kinetic only base skill power.
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  10. #10
    Pretty sure glass cannon 25% buff will increase your skill damage more than kinetic momentum (because amplified damage > skill damage), but maybe there's other factors at work - eg if your friend was trying The Sacrifice for perfect glass cannon, they're losing a skill tier and potentially 10% skill damage from the brand set and another 10% from the secondary stats, so that might explain why the damage looks the same.
    The best test would be to use identical vests, one with glass cannon and one with kinetic momentum, to give you a clear idea of the difference. I'll have to go test this sometime.

    The other advantage of glass cannon of course is that if you want to do damage with something other than your skills (like using a weapon) it'll improve that damage too. Oh, and most explosive builds run seekers along with the artillery turret, so they don't get full benefits of kinetic momentum most of the time as seekers don't usually spend very long active or off cooldown.
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