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  1. #41
    CategoryTheory's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by NPCRonnie Go to original post
    The standard talent that goes with the Carbine 7 (Overflowing) is petty nice too, it gives me every 3 reloads an LMG feel to it.
    I don't find it to be a very good talent because a reload counts towards the three only when reloading from empty, so tactical reloads don't count. (The Gunner specialization reload talent doesn't have this issue.)

    Overflowing increases your sustained DPS by essentially making one in four reloads "free." Tactical reloads (i.e., reloads when your mag isn't empty) increase your sustained DPS by allowing you to reload when you have no target to shoot at or when you are moving (during which you can't fire), but these work against each other. If you dump the remainder of your mag before doing a reload when you don't have a target, you're now spending time dumping when you could be moving or reloading.

    Especially if you have a play style where you are positioning yourself as much as possible to put some of your potential targets out of LOS (if they are not in LOS they can't hit you and so you're taking less fire) and using movement to move more targets into LOS as you take out others, it seems to me you're better off just going with tactical reloads and choosing another talent (preferably one that increases per-mag DPS).

    By the way, though reloading when running slows you down, reloading during cover-to-cover movements does not appear to do so. So unless you're using something with a huge reload time (like an LMG), it's almost always a good idea to do a reload just after you start a cover-to-cover movement. (Except perhaps when you're using Overflowing on your weapon.)
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  2. #42
    Sircowdog1's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by CategoryTheory Go to original post
    By the way, though reloading when running slows you down, reloading during cover-to-cover movements does not appear to do so.
    That's is what I try to do as often as I can: reload while cover to cover. It both saves time, and helps to keep the enemy from outflanking you.
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  3. #43
    Originally Posted by CategoryTheory Go to original post
    Where does this come from? The reload times are exactly the same, so I don't see how the sustained DPS difference could be any different from the bust DPS difference.



    Well, though the accuracy stat is the same between the two, the Carbine 7 definitely has a lot less drift when you are simply holding the aim point without firing. (I had often assumed that the latter was a proxy for the former, but I guess not.) That said, it seems to make no practical difference when actually firing single shots at a specific aim point, and in full-auto mode the recoil movement grossly outweighs accuracy, as you can see from the extra hits below where I didn't take my finger off the trigger in time to avoid a second round on full-auto. At the left is the Police M4, at the right is the Carbine 7. The lower impact points are from single shots and the first shot of a two-shot burst; the upper ones are the second shot of a two-shot burst.


    As for the stability, once I'd found ones without stability buffs and took all the mods off, the Police M4 has a slightly better stability spec (about 96% instead of 93% or something like that; I didn't get out my ruler to measure the line on the screen). From letting a full mag go with no attempt to correct aim during fire, I'd say that the Carbine 7 has slightly better stability (a slightly narrower line) but slightly more drift (a longer line), as seen below. Drift can be corrected for, producing a tighter pattern also as seen below, but the difference seems very, very small.


    It does more damage per bullet. On burstDPS, the M4's higher RPM gives it the slight edge - but when you factor in the reload speed, the Carbine7 pulls ever so slightly ahead thanks to the total damage over time. It's super close, and essentially splitting hairs.

    As for the handling, my opinion is purely subjective - I didn't say the gap was large, just the Carbine7 in play seems to have less reticule bounce.
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  4. #44
    Another silly question - what the hell is a "chunga" ???
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  5. #45
    Sircowdog1's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by Aspoiu Go to original post
    Another silly question - what the hell is a "chunga" ???
    Heavies. The Minigun black tusk dudes, the Heavy MG hyenas, True Sons nade guys, Outcast hammer bros, Cleaner flame heavies, Riker Shield nailgun guys, etc etc etc.

    Easier to just call them chungas. Although I have no idea where the term originated. It's just a community term.
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  6. #46
    Got it. I suspected that, but I couldn't link the word (if that's a word) "chunga" to anything related to those guys. Thanks
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  7. #47
    CategoryTheory's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by Sircowdog1 Go to original post
    That's is what I try to do as often as I can: reload while cover to cover. It both saves time, and helps to keep the enemy from outflanking you.
    Even if you're not moving far enough to prevent flanking (say, between a couple of cover points a few meters apart), the enemies seem to take a brief moment to get their fire directed on to your new position after you pop up and they see you've moved, so it can still reduce the amount of damage you're taking. If you're going to be spending time reloading anyway, you might as well use the same time to move to adjacent cover.
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  8. #48
    IMO:

    Honey Badger > Carbine 7, due to identical handling stats, 1 less mod slot (muzzle), but significantly more base dmg. I can't tell the difference, handling-wise. And 1x Optimal Range mod and I'm at 42m.

    G36 > P416, due to significantly more base dmg, but a lot less accuracy than the P416. Stability on the G36 is rock solid, and the slow dmg taper after 42m means I'm hitting full powered shots at 90m. I can only guess Ranger is compensating 1:1 for the dmg drop off.

    I play from range (+35m & pvp mostly), using Ranger, and 2x Optimal Range attachments on the weapon. So I compensate the lack of accuracy on the G36 by using Braced. I occasionally swap to the HB, but the side-to-side kick at long distances keeps me from landing shots since I'm so busy correcting. And I inevitably switch back to the G36.

    750 & 790 RPM seems to be the sweet spot for distanced dmg dealing.
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  9. #49
    CategoryTheory's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by badkarmacreepin Go to original post
    Honey Badger > Carbine 7, due to identical handling stats, 1 less mod slot (muzzle), but significantly more base dmg.
    It looks like only slightly more base damage, according to the spreadsheet: 47952 / 47012 is 2% more.(Still, an extra 2% damage is helpful.)

    I can't tell the difference, handling-wise.
    It would be more convincing if you could show screenshots of the spread, side by side, as I did in my post above.
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  10. #50
    Noxious81's Avatar Senior Member
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    Concerning the discussion whether AR might be better than another AR:

    I personally think it doesn't really matter in basically every PvE-endgame-content. I regularly play any kind of endgame content, from sometimes assisting other agents on hard difficulty in the Summit, strolling around in my challenging open world, playing heroic content solo or with clan mates or clearing legendary missions and both raids on a very regular basis.

    And I have all my favorite ARs – every single one optimized, every single one with my favorite talent Optimist, and of course all having damage to targets out of cover as third attribute – to choose from when playing. And as they are all at the same spot concerning rolls, attributes, and talent it is pretty easy to compare them.

    Just for the record: the ARs I regularly use are the Carbine 7, FAMAS, Mk16, G36, Police M4, CTAR-21, and sometimes the Shield Splinterer (named F2000 with Perfect Optimist).

    So the thing is – in most of my builds it does not make any kind of content significantly easier or harder if use this AR or that AR. Yes, there are minor differences concerning the stats, but the pure numbers do not make a significant difference. If you like the G36 more than a Police M4... that's fine. Prefer the CTAR over the FAMAS? Fine. If a gun feels good for you (e. g. because of the handling stats or the optimal range or the RPM, whatever), then you usually play better with it, get familiar with it, feel more comfortable with it, land more shots with it, and thus deal more damage with it. I just think that currently most ARs really are mainly on par. And you should just choose whatever gun appeals the most to you. And not choose a gun that doesn't feel as good to you, because it has a mod slot more or a 1% higher base damage or 50 RPM more or whatever...

    Addendum:
    I personally just generally prefer the Mk16 over ARs like the FAMAS or the CTAR when playing a 3-3-0 build. Simply because of the higher ammo consumption of the latter two and the higher damage per shot of the Mk16. Which both seems very beneficial to me when not playing with a full red build.
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