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  1. #61
    CategoryTheory's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by badkarmacreepin Go to original post
    I have! Given that particular build, maintaining the rest of the gear pieces & weapons, working with max stat rolls, every piece has max CHD rolled, and substituting for one or both of Contractor's and/or Fox's, I've swapped in: a Grupo piece in either slot, 2x Sokolov for both, an Improvised Holster with a Grupo for both, 1x Overlord for +accuracy, 1x Petrov for more Wep Handling. Even a CV piece, but at >25m, I'm at max CHC anyway. If I'm using my G36 inside 25m, something has gone very wrong.

    Nothing exceeds the dmg numbers beyond what Contractor's and Fox's make, since they're standalone multiplicative.
    This is correct. There's a more detailed discussion of this, with numerical calculations, in the recent All-Red (and High-Crit) Builds and Fox's Prayer thread.

    The results are slightly situational, of course. Damage to Out of Cover seems like a clear win because enemies are so often out of cover (and rushers, which many players want to go down ASAP, always are), but Damage to Armor less so, since it applies only to segmented armour bars above the enemy health bar: chunga, warhound and similar "armour" is actually affected by Damage to Health. (Conveniently, maxed ARs have a very high stat on that anyway, though, so adding more to that multiplier will not make such a big a difference as going from not having it at all to having it.)
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  2. #62
    CategoryTheory's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by badkarmacreepin Go to original post
    The HB and C7 feel the same to ME....
    Screen grabs are a bit much for this...
    Au contraire, this is exactly where screen grabs are much better. "Feelings" are notoriously imprecise, and when translated through words even more so. Screen grabs are also trivial to do (taking literally 10-15 seconds from starting the snipper to having it pasted into imgur.com), at least on PC.

    Anyway, I've still not come across a Honey Badger, but I notice that I have a Savage Wolverine blueprint, and that's based on the Honey Badger, so I decided to give that a try so I could have some data.

    The stats for the Savage Wolverine and Carbine 7 appear identical in-game and, as above, on [url=https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/1/d/e/2PACX-1vTJEX5DerCvOj3a_m36TRy1gPBAUvrduOIdmXI9j1Y0MpQk1w IXaZ9KOcPa7HzXzp_N5qGmjDj6yEfL/pubhtml#]the spreadsheet the Honey Badger, Savage Wolverine and Carbine 7 also have identical stats (for the ones given) excepting that the SW and HB have 2% higher damage.

    The SW has no muzzle mod point, however, so depending on the build that could easily make it worse by 5% or so in damage (if you have 140% CHD in your build, +5% CHC gives +7% expected damage). Alternatively, you can increase the C7's accuracy or optimal range by 10%. (The stability mods, even the +20% one, seem to do little or nothing, probably because stability is already so near the maximum.)

    Here's the pic, with the C7 in the left/center columns and the SW in the right. (All tests were done at 30 m range.) The top two diagonal bursts are a full 30 round mag with no corrrection; below that are bursts with correction, and at the bottom are single shots with two or three accidental two-round bursts just above them. As you can see, there's not much to distinguish between them, except perhaps controlled burst accuracy in this particular instance (but see below).

    The one burst at the far left is the C7 with a Large Suppressor for +10% accuracy; that seems to be a slight improvement in this instance, but further testing didn't convince me that it was a big or obvious improvement.



    Just to check the controlled burst accuracy, I did three more of each, with C7 on the left and SW on the right. I think the SW really does do slightly tighter controlled bursts, though the C7 catches up when using the Large Suppressor.



    So the verdict? If you have a good use for the muzzle attachment to increase damage, the Carbine 7 wins, otherwise the Savage Wolverine (and presumably the Honey Badger) has a minor edge.
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  3. #63
    Exactly right. But I still stand by at ~50m, the G36 is easier to hit with. While using Braced of course. Without, you're spraying all over the place!
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  4. #64
    CategoryTheory's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by badkarmacreepin Go to original post
    Exactly right. But I still stand by at ~50m, the G36 is easier to hit with. While using Braced of course. Without, you're spraying all over the place!
    Sounds like in other words, when comparing like with like (all with or all without braced), the G36 is not easier to hit with.

    It's not as if using Braced comes with no costs.
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  5. #65
    Originally Posted by CategoryTheory Go to original post
    [i]
    So the verdict? If you have a good use for the muzzle attachment to increase damage, the Carbine 7 wins, otherwise the Savage Wolverine (and presumably the Honey Badger) has a minor edge.
    Thanks for doing this.
    Worth mentioning that while HB/SW doesn't have a muzzle attachment slot, it does have an integrated suppressor (appearance-wise quite good reproduction of the real thing), and that might help with the accuracy over Carbine 7 with no suppressor or other accuracy attachment.
    I'm bummed by Ubi's decision to make LVOA-C a semi only. I know it's a game, but I wish Ubi tried to keep the guns closer to the inspiration material (where FAMAS won't be very good).
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  6. #66
    CategoryTheory's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by Aspoiu Go to original post
    Worth mentioning that while HB/SW doesn't have a muzzle attachment slot, it does have an integrated suppressor (appearance-wise quite good reproduction of the real thing)...
    Ah, that's why it's so much quieter than the Carbine 7!

    ...and that might help with the accuracy over Carbine 7 with no suppressor or other accuracy attachment.
    Well, if it helps to the degree that it bumps the stat represented in the accuracy or stability bar (as do the muzzle attachements you can add to the Carbine 7), then it's just compensating for the HB/SW starting out with a slightly lower bar in one of those two areas, and the integrated suppressor is simply bringing it up to the Carbine 7's level. But of course those stat bars don't fully express the stability of a weapon (far from it!) and possibly not even its accuracy, so I guess you could argue that the HB/SW is easier to control because of this.

    But in the end it doesn't really matter, since it can't be removed; you just take whatever it provides as an charateristic of the weapon itself.

    But the noise suppression is worth nothing for those rare situations where you may avoid alerting other enemies when you kill an enemy somewhat distant from them. (One example would be at the start of Potomac Event Center, where at least with a suppressed pistol you can kil the guy closest to the entrance without alterting the rest of the area.)
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  7. #67
    Originally Posted by CategoryTheory Go to original post
    Sounds like in other words, when comparing like with like (all with or all without braced), the G36 is not easier to hit with.

    It's not as if using Braced comes with no costs.
    Actually, between the C7, HB, and G36 Enhanced, with Braced, and at ~50m, the G36 is better. Again, subjectively. But there's a lot less kick side-to-side, as with either 790 rpm ARs. If you're not using Braced, hitting anything at ~50m with any AR is going to be difficult. At least while using a controller.
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