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  1. #21
    BT3241's Avatar Senior Member
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    One other thing I will say when I play with a team that plays defensively they are long drawn out battles and there is a chance of dying but when playing on a team that is aggressive the enemy is in a panic and never get set for the battle and it goes much better - I play aggressively and the tactic works if with other good players. I drop out when its a grinder battle where players let the enemy run all over them.
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  2. #22
    Imagine_Brata's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by BT3241 Go to original post
    I see a lot of people with armor attributes and mods on heroic - I have never used a stat or MOD for armor to play heroic from day 1 you don't need it unless your running a shield build. I think its a total waste to have armor playing heroic.
    I always have 1 main core attribute armor on my shotgun build. it has saved me many times
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  3. #23
    CategoryTheory's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by HonestlyOK1986 Go to original post
    I dont mind there being skill builds etc and that people specialise in that style of play, the placements of the skills, the timing of what to use when etc, it helps newer players get through more content and feel like they're doing something etc; i just feel that skill builds arent particularly skillful to use as a player.
    I'm in complete agreement with you that skill builds often require less player skill than, say, all-red builds.

    Skill builds definitely have a place in the game, but for me, like i said, i think they needed to balance it out a bit more that your skills arent your primary damage and should be there as a support.
    Well, then you wouldn't be able to do the kinds of builds you can do now where most of your damage comes from skills. I completely disagree with you that the ability to do this should be removed from the game; taking out something you don't want to use doesn't provide any extra fun (since individuals can do "skills support" builds either way), but taking it out does mean that there's one less way to play the game, which does reduce the fun for those who want to try that way.

    Nor do pure-skill builds require no skill at all; you still have to learn to build and use them correctly, which is not entirely trivial. There are also options (such as certain directives) that increase the difficulty of using even pure-skill builds beyond that of a decent weapon damage build without those options.
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  4. #24
    Originally Posted by CategoryTheory Go to original post
    I'm in complete agreement with you that skill builds often require less player skill than, say, all-red builds.



    Well, then you wouldn't be able to do the kinds of builds you can do now where most of your damage comes from skills. I completely disagree with you that the ability to do this should be removed from the game; taking out something you don't want to use doesn't provide any extra fun (since individuals can do "skills support" builds either way), but taking it out does mean that there's one less way to play the game, which does reduce the fun for those who want to try that way.

    Nor do pure-skill builds require no skill at all; you still have to learn to build and use them correctly, which is not entirely trivial. There are also options (such as certain directives) that increase the difficulty of using even pure-skill builds beyond that of a decent weapon damage build without those options.
    Yeah like i said before theres some timing and what to use when involved in it, positioning etc but imo they dont require a great deal of skill to run them. I just think they should add an element of gunplay to the balancing of it so you dont play the game like a mobile (celluar) phone game where its doing most the work for you. Its an each to their own kinda thing, i enjoy sustained heavy damage from whatever gun im using, others will prefer to be a skill support and heal people, crowd control etc, each to their own. My perception when i saw the first few td1 trailers back in the day is they'd be a support rather than a main attribute, ive stuck with that theory since each to their own though.

    Back to original thread topic though, id be inclined to say they should knock it all down a level, so heroic becomes the new challenging, challenging the new hard etc etc and then legendary becomes heroic, then increase legendary as a new difficulty, increase squad size to 8 in open world play to encourage larger groups to play together and obviously potentially group up with other like minded then for a raid.

    Tbh there's a lot they could do with the game to change things about and tweak it, modify it to change what people need to run to survive etc but ir ultimately comes down too, what if you are a proper casual who plays once a week for a few hours? The grind for that would be spectacular; the current grind isnt. You can get some really good stuff pretty quickly and get a very workable build fast, which i think is what they were going for. Im half tempted to switch to ps4 and start over just to give me something to do in game. Probably take a few days to finish the campaign dependant on if i let others in the group, maybe a few weeks to get a few different builds together to swap it about dependant on squad need, so like dps, medic, support etc the bigger part would be refarming things and optimising.
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  5. #25
    I'd love to see Legendary open world as well as all the missions. Problem is that when Legendary was actually hard, all the bums complained it was too hard. It wasn't. It was hard enough that unless you had a true team and stuck to the plan and roles, you'd get ripped up. That was too much to ask for for casuals so they nerfed it. Legendary is a joke now. I can solo any Legendary mission and handle Legendary Summit up to floor 99 solo. That just shouldn't happen. Legendary should be the ultimate challenge for the top players. It isn't. You can drag a noob through without issue. Until they stop NERFING anything that's extremely difficult, it won't really matter.
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  6. #26
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  7. #27
    Sircowdog1's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by HonestlyOK1986 Go to original post
    increase squad size to 8 in open world play to encourage larger groups to play together and obviously potentially group up with other like minded then for a raid.
    I'm sorry....can I ask what might sound like a stupid question:

    If the aim is to make the game slightly more difficult...how does letting hordes of players team up improve that situation? 4 players already almost trivializes most content. To the extent that current Legendary is often viewed by many players as "too easy". Don't you think that allowing 8 players would be counter to the aim of making the game more challenging?

    This is the fundamental problem I see with the raids. The skill and weapon power dynamic of agents is designed entirely around a group size of 1 to 4. This is why the raids had to be made by an entirely different team using encounters and game mechanics that don't exist anywhere else, and often REQUIRE more than a single player to execute. If you take the group size of the open world and missions up to 8, then in order to maintain any sort of challenge, the open world and missions would also have to start using mechanics that REQUIRE more than a single person.

    This would fundamentally change the nature of the game. And I'm sorry, but small squad action is the strength of the game. To such a degree that the game actually gets more difficult and tactical with the less players in the group. Soloing is actually more of a challenge than 4 player group scaling.

    So If you want to gather 20 of your friends and roflstomp a boss, then you should probably look into playing WoW or FFXIV or something instead of trying to turn Division into that. I really don't think increasing the size of groups is a good idea for this franchise.

    Im half tempted to switch to ps4 and start over just to give me something to do in game. Probably take a few days to finish the campaign dependant on if i let others in the group, maybe a few weeks to get a few different builds together to swap it about dependant on squad need, so like dps, medic, support etc the bigger part would be refarming things and optimising.
    I've done this a couple times now. It's pretty fun, to be completely honest. Although you're correct that it doesn't take that long to get up to speed, there's still quite a bit of enjoyment to be had from the process. Sometimes you even get a new perspective on different playstyles that you might not have had before. Try leveling up only using pistols, or MMRs, or Shotguns.
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  8. #28
    Cadillac-Jack's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by Sircowdog1 Go to original post
    I've done this a couple times now. It's pretty fun, to be completely honest. Although you're correct that it doesn't take that long to get up to speed, there's still quite a bit of enjoyment to be had from the process. Sometimes you even get a new perspective on different playstyles that you might not have had before. Try leveling up only using pistols, or MMRs, or Shotguns.
    Even though i have not done this on levelling up the one thing i have done is make a build to solely rely on and solely use the Flamethrower Specialization weapon and nothing else, and to be honest it's been a real blast.

    Ammo is the tricky part (which is why i wish they'd let us hold more.
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  9. #29
    Sircowdog1's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by Cadillac-Jack Go to original post
    Even though i have not done this on levelling up the one thing i have done is make a build to solely rely on and solely use the Flamethrower Specialization weapon and nothing else, and to be honest it's been a real blast.

    Ammo is the tricky part (which is why i wish they'd let us hold more.
    I did this, finally using the Firewall spec for the first time seriously. I used an Eclipse Protocol build with Stinger Hive and Riot Foam chem launcher. The flamethrower specialization weapon is the hardest hitting fire DoT in the game, IIRC. So you just riot foam a group, or even a single enemy, then set him on fire. The EP spread does the rest. It's definitely a satisfying way to play, and even works decently well into heroic, which most status builds don't.

    I REALLY wish I could get specializations or sets during leveling. EP would be a monster for speed-leveling.
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  10. #30
    Heroic Open world is okay problem is there will always be a player who will complain about being too difficult, the older days of Div 2 where Heroic is totally difficult and you need to change play style, gears and skills to finish it now sub par gears, weapon and skill and how you play it you can do it solo with not much of a problem.

    Guess Div 2 is for casual now no more challenge and learning curve as most are gun and run and die.
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