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  1. #11
    BT3241's Avatar Senior Member
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    I see a lot of people with armor attributes and mods on heroic - I have never used a stat or MOD for armor to play heroic from day 1 you don't need it unless your running a shield build. I think its a total waste to have armor playing heroic.
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  2. #12
    Originally Posted by Cadillac-Jack Go to original post
    I'm at the belief it's the other way round, the weaker gear you have on the more they know and get more aggressive.
    I havent tested the theory but i find if im wearing unbreakable the enemy will trash your unbreakable at times, knock you down to sod all after that but then leave you to it a bit to give you time to recover. Whereas if you've say perfectly braced on (i run lmgs alot) they wont trash you as badly in certain situations etc. Tbh i think its well worked and there is a style of play that allows you to get through the content.

    Realistically, the game is done, they're not going to make any more sweeping changes to how it plays or new gear, balancing etc now. They'll throw out some more content apparently this year but that will be it, there wont be another gear 2.0 for example.
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  3. #13
    Cadillac-Jack's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by HonestlyOK1986 Go to original post
    I havent tested the theory but i find if im wearing unbreakable the enemy will trash your unbreakable at times, knock you down to sod all after that but then leave you to it a bit to give you time to recover. Whereas if you've say perfectly braced on (i run lmgs alot) they wont trash you as badly in certain situations etc. Tbh i think its well worked and there is a style of play that allows you to get through the content.
    I actually think the AI is alot smarter than people think in this game especially when you go up through the factions (Take The Black Tusk)

    I'm going to put up a clip from a while ago watch it carefully.

    ie: watch how the BT reacts to me and what he says. you might have to watch it a couple of times, but he mirrors my movement.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nus1hh0Wwoo (.9 seconds in)
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  4. #14
    CategoryTheory's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by Canthought_ Go to original post
    isnt the diffirence between purple gears and yellow is the armor? except for weapons.
    Well, close. There are also four fewer attribute slots: one for the equipped weapon and three for the missing mod slots on the mask, pack and chest. Those could be equipped to add another 25% overall damage, for example.

    Purple gear also has slightly lower maximum rolls for attributes (e.g., +13% rather than +15% weapon damage), but not hugely so, and anyway you'll notice below that recalibration can push these up to gold level, anyway.

    Originally Posted by Cadillac-Jack Go to original post
    ...i'm using infinitely weaker gear in those clips...the build i'm using is so sub-optimal it's laughable.
    While the gear is weaker, I wouldn't say it's massively weaker, and your build is quite the opposite of sub-optimal. I took a few minutes to write it down (the ● indicates a recalibrated attribute):

    Code:
        MP7 SMG: +13% dmg +18% CHC (maxrolls), Close & Personal
        P416 AR: +7% dmg +10% Hdmg (50% rolls), Future Perfect
    
        P Composure (in cover, +15% Wdmg)
        C Obliterate (crits → +1% TWD 5s stack 25)
    
        M Provid    15% Hdmg    ●14% Wdmg     4% handling     6% expl-res
        P 5.11      10% health  ●170k armor   7% CHD          3% Hdmg
        C Golan     10% stateff   82k armor  13k health       6% Hdmg
        G Golan    ₂ 1% regen   ●15% Wdmg    2216 regen       7% exp-resist
        H Golan    ₃ 5% armor   ●15% Wdmg    16k health       5% handling
        K Walker     5% Wdmg     13% Wdmg    12% CHD         10% hazprot
    The only areas where it's weak are in using Providence for your mask (you don't make a lot of headshots, as far as I can tell, so you could get a bigger advantage out of a different mask), Obliterate when your crit chance looks quite low (it didn't stack much in the second video), and maybe Future Perfect on your AR, but that last one is arguable. (And I think you were using a different AR talent in the second video? I'm not noticing Future Perfect proc there.)

    On the other hand, you look like you're probably using decent mods on your weapons (I saw only the extended mag on the AR) and you've gone with at least some sensible talents and gear recalibration to buff up your build, including +80% weapon damage, which is pretty high for a build with so much armour.
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  5. #15
    Cadillac-Jack's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by CategoryTheory Go to original post
    Well, close. There are also four fewer attribute slots: one for the equipped weapon and three for the missing mod slots on the mask, pack and chest. Those could be equipped to add another 25% overall damage, for example.

    Purple gear also has slightly lower maximum rolls for attributes (e.g., +13% rather than +15% weapon damage), but not hugely so, and anyway you'll notice below that recalibration can push these up to gold level, anyway.



    While the gear is weaker, I wouldn't say it's massively weaker, and your build is quite the opposite of sub-optimal. I took a few minutes to write it down:

    Code:
        MP7 SMG: +13% dmg +18% CHC (maxrolls), Close & Personal
        P416 AR: +7% dmg +10% Hdmg (50% rolls), Future Perfect
    
        P Composure (in cover, +15% Wdmg)
        C Obliterate (crits → +1% TWD 5s stack 25)
    
        M Provid    15% Hdmg    ●14% Wdmg     4% handling     6% expl-res
        P 5.11      10% health  ●170k armor   7% CHD          3% Hdmg
        C Golan     10% stateff   82k armor  13k health       6% Hdmg
        G Golan    ₂ 1% regen   ●15% Wdmg    2216 regen       7% exp-resist
        H Golan    ₃ 5% armor   ●15% Wdmg    16k health       5% handling
        K Walker     5% Wdmg     15% Wdmg    12% CHD         10% hazprot
    The only areas where it's weak are in using Providence for your mask (you don't make a lot of headshots, as far as I can tell, so you could get a bigger advantage out of a different mask), Obliterate when your crit chance looks quite low (it didn't stack much in the second video), and maybe Future Perfect on your AR, but that last one is arguable. (And I think you were using a different AR talent in the second video? I'm not noticing Future Perfect proc there.)

    On the other hand, you look like you're probably using decent mods on your weapons (I saw only the extended mag on the AR) and you've gone with at least some sensible talents and gear recalibration to buff up your build, including +80% weapon damage, which is pretty high for a build with so much armour.
    I got lucky with the Walker harris piece that came as is, same with the MP7.

    The AR is the same one in both vids.

    Mods on weapons i usually go with Stability and accuracy where possible (console controllers have drift) so keeping anything on target is tricky.

    I specifically chose composure because of the weapon damage in cover(the build being as is almost requires me to be in cover) on Heroic.

    But yeah i get it's not a total crap build. which begs the question do we need maxed out builds or does the difficulty need upping or take purples out from Heroic.
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  6. #16
    Originally Posted by Cadillac-Jack Go to original post
    I got lucky with the Walker harris piece that came as is, same with the MP7.

    The AR is the same one in both vids.

    Mods on weapons i usually go with Stability and accuracy where possible (console controllers have drift) so keeping anything on target is tricky.

    I specifically chose composure because of the weapon damage in cover(the build being as is almost requires me to be in cover) on Heroic.

    But yeah i get it's not a total crap build. which begs the question do we need maxed out builds or does the difficulty need upping or take purples out from Heroic.
    I've always said down the years for pve you can run what you like really, pve is pretty well balanced as long as your build is playing to yours and your teams play style/strengths. The pvp is however a completely different matter altogether for balancing but thats not for in here. Raids etc are very build specific, you need certain attributes to be able to finish them, which is the only pve exception.

    Personally i dont think they need to change how its balanced now. An open world legendary where you feel like you're really battling when you're not just hiding behind skills doing all the work for you would be nice. I always thought they should have limited skills to 3 tiers so you had to use them as a support and not your main feature.
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  7. #17
    CategoryTheory's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by Cadillac-Jack Go to original post
    I got lucky with the Walker harris piece that came as is, same with the MP7.
    Yeah, Which made me just notice that I incorreclty marked that as +15% weapon damage rather than +13%. (Though that doesn't invalidate any discussion about it, as you would obviously have recalibrated it anyway.)

    The AR is the same one in both vids.
    Well, it's a mystery to me why I can't see Future Perfect proc'ing in that second video, then. Anybody else want to weigh in on this?

    Mods on weapons i usually go with Stability and accuracy where possible (console controllers have drift) so keeping anything on target is tricky.
    Yeah, I pretty quickly identified you as being on console when I saw you overshooting the targets as you moved your aim. I don't think that stability and accuracy are going to help much (if at all) with that, but I may be wrong. (I am terrible with gamepads in FPS games.)

    I specifically chose composure because of the weapon damage in cover(the build being as is almost requires me to be in cover) on Heroic.
    Yes, I'm a big fan of Composure myself. But it's exactly those sort of decisions that I expect players were not making when they demanded that Massive make the game easier.

    But yeah i get it's not a total crap build. which begs the question do we need maxed out builds or does the difficulty need upping or take purples out from Heroic.
    Well, obviously you've shown that non-maxed builds can be effective, though I think many of us knew that already. I think it would be good to have a level more difficult than Heroic more widely available. I don't know if Legendary is too hard or not; I've not played it much not because I don't enjoy it and make progress, but because I find the lack of checkpoints really, really annoying. Dying and having to re-do an encounter is fine, and no doubt deserved when it happens to me, but replaying a half dozen or more encounters that I've just done is too tedious for me, so I usually bail when I die and the last checkpoint is more than a few encounters behind me.

    The directives have been decent for me at bumping up the difficulty and introducing new play styles (these days I often play Heroic with all directives enabled), but they also often enough make me feel that they're forcing a rather different play style from "regular" play and limiting my loadouts more than I'd like.
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  8. #18
    CategoryTheory's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by HonestlyOK1986 Go to original post
    I always thought they should have limited skills to 3 tiers so you had to use them as a support and not your main feature.
    Well, I'd disagree with that. I admit that I sometimes feel that I'm hiding behind my skills when I go with a high-skill build (particularly when pairing Assault Turret with Striker Drone), but you don't have to do that, and having the option does make for another style of play to learn.
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  9. #19
    Originally Posted by CategoryTheory Go to original post
    Well, I'd disagree with that. I admit that I sometimes feel that I'm hiding behind my skills when I go with a high-skill build (particularly when pairing Assault Turret with Striker Drone), but you don't have to do that, and having the option does make for another style of play to learn.
    I dont mind there being skill builds etc and that people specialise in that style of play, the placements of the skills, the timing of what to use when etc, it helps newer players get through more content and feel like they're doing something etc; i just feel that skill builds arent particularly skillful to use as a player. Thats just my opinion on it, i prefer gun play and to shoot things rather than watching something else do it for me. Skill builds definitely have a place in the game, but for me, like i said, i think they needed to balance it out a bit more that your skills arent your primary damage and should be there as a support.

    In the same breath though, i like the options there for those who want to run an all singing an dancing powerful skill build. Theres always hybrids and momento backpack hybrids for what im talking about. Theres A LOT of choice in this game. Just feels daft when they limit that then for what id consider end game of going an doing pvp after you've finished the campaign. That probablt comes from growing up playing cod though, you do the SP and then move into pvp
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  10. #20
    BT3241's Avatar Senior Member
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    I don't think it easyer players just get use to it - I know all the battles and what they will do and where they will come from - black Tusk any helicopter drop and their instantly dead because I know exactly where they will land - different tactics learned from experience that work well on how to approach the battle But you can still get slaughtered with a bad team and every once and a while you are going to loose. Experience is what makes the game seem easier.
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