1. #11
    LuckyBide's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by Fraeulein Go to original post
    Btw- Saw the post over on Reddit - there was one individual who thinks having Sarah carry on the job, is a great idea. My guess, they are the ubisoft employee who floated it and got a green light. .
    There were even two of them who thought it was a great idea, looks like he spoke to another employee
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  2. #12
    Eh - We're getting close to E3 so I thought I'd check in. I'm not interested in mobile anyway...but yeah, Ubisoft has been wrecking the brand for a long time. So, I'll just say it - I don't like to play games as female characters. I particularly don't like placing women in these hard core military roles (COD, GR Breakpoint). I don't care about the social politics, it's not believable or progressive. I like women, Grim was an interesting character and believable for the most part. If Sam had a son I would still dislike the decision to put him in the game, it's cliche and doesn't really do much for the story that a new character wouldn't accomplish better. Archer wasn't a great character, but he would work okay. Kestrel would have been a great character. If you wanted SC continuity from Blacklist then Briggs would have been the obvious choice.

    If we were intelligently looking at creative ways for narrative opportunity and not some way to appease the purple haired women at Ubisoft then they'd realize that Kestrel provides the most opportunity of exploring nuanced characters. You have Russian spy working with NSA who obviously would bring Russian sensibilities to the table and have to contrast that with working in American bureaucracy. Especially if you structured it with that juxtaposition of Russian spy, working for American NSA, you'd have tons of room to explore all of the dissonance from that complex relationship. It would even offer timely and relevant material for evolving attitudes and conflicts between capitalist and communist ideals. But....this kind of narrative would require a team of mature people to work out. So, one-dimensional feminism it is. 120lb women who kick A#?, Sweet!

    In any case, I stopped buying Ubi games, and it looks like I have no reason to change that.
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  3. #13
    sgt_brent's Avatar Senior Member
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    Ubisoft is now made up of a "WOKE" generation of game developers who have simply destroyed the iconic genre creations of past artists. On purpose or not, what was once a gritty, shadowy, mature franchise is now a cartoon-fest of idiocratic nonsense.

    This is the world we live in now.
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  4. #14
    Originally Posted by LuckyBide Go to original post
    I honestly think they're doing this first and foremost to sell a new set of microtransactions by creating a sort of alternative Tom Clancy universe in the mobile biome. I bet most of mobile players never heard of Splinter Cell or know very little about this series. And I consider this being a very bad move from Ubisoft because I don't think mobile players care that much about having Sam's daughter in that game, and another hand it pisses off the Splinter Cell fans to see this.
    Yeah, I wouldn't think that they'd really care much about SC. I don't know, though - I don't do mobile games (I HATE tiny screens), and don't know anything about that audience.

    Originally Posted by Fraeulein Go to original post
    Same. He came off as such a D-bag. I made my husband play him in co-op. Even husband hated playing the character “Why do I always have to play this guy? He is such a ****.”
    I always made my BF play as him, too. Poor, unloved Archer. lol

    Originally Posted by generalbrown20 Go to original post
    Eh - We're getting close to E3 so I thought I'd check in. I'm not interested in mobile anyway...but yeah, Ubisoft has been wrecking the brand for a long time. So, I'll just say it - I don't like to play games as female characters. I particularly don't like placing women in these hard core military roles (COD, GR Breakpoint). I don't care about the social politics, it's not believable or progressive. I like women, Grim was an interesting character and believable for the most part. If Sam had a son I would still dislike the decision to put him in the game, it's cliche and doesn't really do much for the story that a new character wouldn't accomplish better. Archer wasn't a great character, but he would work okay. Kestrel would have been a great character. If you wanted SC continuity from Blacklist then Briggs would have been the obvious choice.
    I don't mind female characters; if I have a choice I often choose to play as one, though not always. I do think that there are physical differences and realistic limitations, though I'm actually taller than Sam, so...yeah.
    As for the others...please no Archer. lol Briggs...I don't know. For me he didn't really leave much of an impact, and Blacklist Sam felt like as much of a new character as Briggs. Kestrel would be my pick, for sure. I liked his quiet, methodical style. He was professional, very capable, and felt unique. There's a lot of potential there, and I would be happy to play as him again.
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  5. #15
    LuckyBide's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by CoastalGirl Go to original post
    Yeah, I wouldn't think that they'd really care much about SC. I don't know, though - I don't do mobile games (I HATE tiny screens), and don't know anything about that audience.
    Well when you see some Siege players not even knowing that Zero's real name is Sam Fisher and comes from Splinter Cell, you can easily imagine mobile players never heard of him or that franchise either. And especially in countries mobile games are predominant and where people mostly play on this platform because they can't afford a computer or a console.

    Originally Posted by CoastalGirl Go to original post
    I don't mind female characters; if I have a choice I often choose to play as one, though not always. I do think that there are physical differences and realistic limitations, though I'm actually taller than Sam, so...yeah.
    As for the others...please no Archer. lol Briggs...I don't know. For me he didn't really leave much of an impact, and Blacklist Sam felt like as much of a new character as Briggs. Kestrel would be my pick, for sure. I liked his quiet, methodical style. He was professional, very capable, and felt unique. There's a lot of potential there, and I would be happy to play as him again.
    I agree with you, I didn't like Briggs either. Kestrel would be the right choice, with an interesting background.
    I would also love to see Hisham Hamza or Frances Coen in the role but I guess a lot of people don't know who they are because these characters are too ancient now.
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  6. #16
    Originally Posted by CoastalGirl Go to original post

    I don't mind female characters; if I have a choice I often choose to play as one, though not always. I do think that there are physical differences and realistic limitations, though I'm actually taller than Sam, so...yeah.
    As for the others...please no Archer. lol Briggs...I don't know. For me he didn't really leave much of an impact, and Blacklist Sam felt like as much of a new character as Briggs. Kestrel would be my pick, for sure. I liked his quiet, methodical style. He was professional, very capable, and felt unique. There's a lot of potential there, and I would be happy to play as him again.
    I'm assuming you are a female, given your title. If so I think it would make sense that you would want to play games with female lead characters. I think it's fine, and the obvious solution in a world of customizable characters is to allow players to pick their characters gender. Beyond that feature though I would not want to see gender politics play a major theme in Splinter Cell game. As much, I would like to play games where the lead character is a man...because that's what I am. I like to get into the game and character, so being forced to play as a female soldier isn't my thing. Character customization seems like a sensible middle-road.
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  7. #17
    Originally Posted by LuckyBide Go to original post

    I agree with you, I didn't like Briggs either. Kestrel would be the right choice, with an interesting background.
    I would also love to see Hisham Hamza or Frances Coen in the role but I guess a lot of people don't know who they are because these characters are too ancient now.
    Briggs didn't offer much as a character, but he would be a suitable vehicle for conducting espionage missions. But, it looks like we are all in agreement that Kestrel would be most interesting evolution.

    I also agree with CostalGirl that Blacklist Sam was different enough to stand alone as his own character. He was not as interesting as the previous Sam(s), but as much as everybody wants Ironside, I just don't think the voice/character acting was the thing that brought Blacklist down as a game. Had it been more in the vein of Chaos Theory, and focused on anything other than John Wick combat, then it could have worked.
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  8. #18
    LuckyBide's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by generalbrown20 Go to original post
    I also agree with CostalGirl that Blacklist Sam was different enough to stand alone as his own character. He was not as interesting as the previous Sam(s), but as much as everybody wants Ironside, I just don't think the voice/character acting was the thing that brought Blacklist down as a game. Had it been more in the vein of Chaos Theory, and focused on anything other than John Wick combat, then it could have worked.
    I totally agree with this. That argument of the Ironside absence that supposedly hurted Blacklist or even killed the franchise is pure BS, let's face it. Most of fans around the world don't play the game with english voices but with the language of each of their respective countries. Sure the fact that Ironside wasn't there didn't help the game but Ubisoft has to blame themselves and only themselves for Blacklist not making the sales they expected, because the marketing campaign of the game was terrible. They released the game during summer and less then a month before GTA V, they showed the game the first time at E3 2012 with a demo where Sam went full guns blazing and even called for an airstrike when fans were expecting for the franchise to return to its roots after considering that Conviction was too much focused on action.

    By the way Kiefer Sutherland voiced Snake in MGS V and it didn't hurt or boost the sales of the game, and despite the fact some of the MGS fans who complained back then. Sure I'd love for Ironside to continue to voice Sam and continue to shape his character and personality, but gameplay matters more for fans and players than to know who is voicing Sam.
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  9. #19
    Originally Posted by LuckyBide Go to original post
    I agree with you, I didn't like Briggs either. Kestrel would be the right choice, with an interesting background.
    I would also love to see Hisham Hamza or Frances Coen in the role but I guess a lot of people don't know who they are because these characters are too ancient now.
    I agree, we've definitely had some background characters that could be developed into more. They just need to be used sensibly and respectfully.


    Originally Posted by generalbrown20 Go to original post
    I'm assuming you are a female, given your title. If so I think it would make sense that you would want to play games with female lead characters. I think it's fine, and the obvious solution in a world of customizable characters is to allow players to pick their characters gender. Beyond that feature though I would not want to see gender politics play a major theme in Splinter Cell game. As much, I would like to play games where the lead character is a man...because that's what I am. I like to get into the game and character, so being forced to play as a female soldier isn't my thing. Character customization seems like a sensible middle-road.
    I am female, but it's not that I want to play as female characters, I just think it's easier for me because of it. I play as male characters all the time, and it's fine, but sometimes I think it helps the tension and atmosphere when you're playing as someone who appears more vulnerable. Not that that can't happen with male characters...there's a brilliant stealth mission in RDR2 that is basically the epitome of that scenario, and Arthur's a pretty tough dude.


    Originally Posted by generalbrown20 Go to original post
    Briggs didn't offer much as a character, but he would be a suitable vehicle for conducting espionage missions. But, it looks like we are all in agreement that Kestrel would be most interesting evolution.
    I think Briggs felt too generic/safe. He was a reasonable character, but I didn't feel the need to know more.


    I also agree with CostalGirl that Blacklist Sam was different enough to stand alone as his own character. He was not as interesting as the previous Sam(s), but as much as everybody wants Ironside, I just don't think the voice/character acting was the thing that brought Blacklist down as a game. Had it been more in the vein of Chaos Theory, and focused on anything other than John Wick combat, then it could have worked.
    I think it's safe to say that pretty much everyone loves Michael Ironside as Sam, but we accept (whether we like it or not), that it wasn't going to last forever. I would have preferred a passing of the torch, and maybe that was intended but not possible. Trying to keep Sam without actually keeping him was not a move I'd make.


    Originally Posted by LuckyBide Go to original post
    I totally agree with this. That argument of the Ironside absence that supposedly hurted Blacklist or even killed the franchise is pure BS, let's face it. Most of fans around the world don't play the game with english voices but with the language of each of their respective countries. Sure the fact that Ironside wasn't there didn't help the game but Ubisoft has to blame themselves and only themselves for Blacklist not making the sales they expected, because the marketing campaign of the game was terrible. They released the game during summer and less then a month before GTA V, they showed the game the first time at E3 2012 with a demo where Sam went full guns blazing and even called for an airstrike when fans were expecting for the franchise to return to its roots after considering that Conviction was too much focused on action.
    Seeing the focus on action (again lol) was certainly disappointing. The overall quality of the game is quite good, IMO, they just weren't trying to make the hardcore stealth game that I was hoping for.
    I guess we're still stuck in the "it's a valuable IP, but we don't know how use it" hole. I would go with a smaller team, committed to stealth, but it seems like they just want too much from it for that to be an option. The blockbuster type games are so expensive to make, but a small team can do amazing things... And if they could do it Unreal 5, with a single-player editor, that would be great.
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  10. #20
    SolidSage's Avatar Senior Member
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    Conviction made it clear that Ubisoft is capable of developing good new characters, (Kestrel, AND Archer) detached from Legacy story lines, as long as the main character continues to be the covert operation and spy/espionage theme.
    Blacklist made it clear that they can make some dull new ones, (Briggs).

    Sam and co have been a little abused over the years, because they are seen as the brand. More evident with this new Sarah Spy development, that is an obvious clutching to the Fisher name.

    Moving forward a Custom Operative (M/F) is the only thing that really make sense to me. I don't want to play a reboot of Sam's story, or drag the old guy out for one more hard to believe outing. Or play as someone connected to Sam so my emotional attachment stamina bar stays full.


    I mean, Sam in my ear would be fine, AND make ACTUAL logical sense.
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