A universal change to 500ms bashes | Forums

[Goat_of_Vermund]

I think all levels would benefit from these changes:

1. Make them 433ms, which would probably be enough to make them truly unreactable. 500ms is already too fast with the hidden indicator for the avarage players, while it is extremely difficult to ever land a 500ms bash on high levels from neutral.

2. Remove all stamina drain from them (including Jörmungandr, who needs a total rework asap, since she is the weakest hero in the game), and don't let them stop stamina regen.

3. Make their followups universally around 15 damage. Some should chain, some should get frame advantage, depending on hero kit.

4. Make them vulnerable to GB on miss. Since they are unreactable, if they miss, their gb vulnerability should be around Gryphon kick or a missed shoulderbash.

5. Don't let them chain on miss.

[FoxyVi]

i cn agree to it and on high lvl is kinda bash meta gaming sooo its kinda safe mode fighting vs it

[Knight_Raime]

Ehhh. I dunno about making them more vulnerable to GB. For what bashes are I think GB's damage is too much. Making bashes faster might be nice. But I think most bashes are fine where they're at speed wise. I'd much rather see their input windows be changed from 100-500ms to 200-400ms. This would still let them be offensive chip tools but drastically dial back how they can be abused defensively.

[Goat_of_Vermund]

I had a fight against someone yesterday who pretty much reaction dodged them all, so I don't think they are fast enough. This change would not affect me or avarage players, it is already a prediction, while this makes them offensively less viable on higher levels. All high level duels are turtling since everything has a counter tech.

15 damage+frame advantage/chaining is a good reward for uncharged bashes for the gb punish risks (if they are the normal 24 damage punish, not pk), it would be the same for this. Forward dodge into gb is the safe bet if you think they will dodge.

Defensively, it is hard to tell what could stop them. Cleansing optionselects and making heavy finishers faster would be a good first step.

[PhoenixSOS]

bashes should chain on whiff unless you have a good recovery a la WL/BP, otherwise you're left with unviable offense and back to the issue of ppl with cracked reactions won't initiate with unviable/unsafe offense. top players in the game (reaction wise) have 120-130 ms reaction time. unless you're making bashes 400 ms with a 100 ms hidden indicator they will be dodged on reaction. the top players that don't have cracked reactions will still just annihilate you because you can't react either but they're better and read better.

[Goat_of_Vermund]

I disagree. Even the best players must be very concentrated to react to Wl/conq/bp bashes, speeding them up by 67ms should be enough to make them truly unreactable. Also, I doubt anyone has 120-130ms reaction times, the best I heard of had double of it.

If bashes chain on miss, it means they are extremely safe, like Tiandi. It would be extremely hard to beat a basher.

[PhoenixSOS]

bodrat and silencer have 120-130 ms reaction time. blitss has 135-140 ms reaction time without a good gpu. other top players have 140-ish reaction time. i have 170-ish reaction time on average/ 160-ish on good days and that's nowhere near top "reactards"

[Goat_of_Vermund]

bodrat and silencer have 120-130 ms reaction time. blitss has 135-140 ms reaction time without a good gpu. other top players have 140-ish reaction time. i have 170-ish reaction time on average/ 160-ish on good days and that's nowhere near top "reactards"

In that case, it wouldn't matter if a bash is 250ms, it wouldn't work on you. However, 400ms is still a more viable thing than 500ms, it would make it viable against more opponents. Most players has no chance anyway against someone reacting in 120ms to things.