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  1. #41
    Cadillac-Jack's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by dagrommit Go to original post
    Massive had 450 people after Division 1 had completed (and that doesn't include the people from Red Storm, Annecy or other studios that helped out).

    The original Bioshock from 2007 peaked at 130 people. Knights of the Old Republic from 2003 peaked at 98 people.

    The original Rainbow Six from 1998? 22
    And yet people regard those games as better than alot of up to date modern games.

    I certainly do.

    Knights of the old Republic is better than every Star Wars game released since.

    The original Bioshock (concept wise and story wise and gameplay) is better than most single player released games in the last 5 to 10 years (bar The Witcher i would say)

    Heck i could go back further to Ghost Recon the original on PS2 is alot better than wildlands et-al.

    (Thats my opinion by the way)
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  2. #42
    dagrommit's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by Cadillac-Jack Go to original post
    And yet people regard those games as better than alot of up to date modern games.

    I certainly do.
    Sure, taste is subjective, and I'm not going to critique some nostalgia tinged memories. The point was to demonstrate how the effort involved in producing a AAA game has ballooned over time. Take Division out of the picture, and it took 5x as many people to develop (single-player) Bioshock as it did (multi-player) Rainbow Six nine years earlier.
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  3. #43
    Cadillac-Jack's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by dagrommit Go to original post
    Sure, taste is subjective, and I'm not going to critique some nostalgia tinged memories. The point was to demonstrate how the effort involved in producing a AAA game has ballooned over time. Take Division out of the picture, and it took 5x as many people to develop (single-player) Bioshock as it did (multi-player) Rainbow Six nine years earlier.
    Trouble is it's not Nostalgia tinged memories it's a reality my end because as of now i play games on old machines now that i regard better than modern games.

    I still play games like Metroid Prime on my Gamecube not because of nostalgia, but because it's a brilliant game, well crafted and fun to play, i still play the original Tomb Raider on the Sega Saturn because its a well crafted fun game, Don't care about graphics much i care about (playability/fun and addictiveness) graphics are a secondary priority my end.

    I could list games i still play on the
    Dreamcast
    Sega master system
    Nintendo 64
    Sega Saturn
    PS1/2/3/4
    X box 360
    Gamecube

    And the rest.


    So yeah Nostalgia nah reality i still play a plethora of old games on old consoles because they are good fun games nothing more nothing less.
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  4. #44
    Sircowdog1's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by TimesLostArc Go to original post
    it is about creating the next "it" title.
    Which strikes me as an odd direction for Ubi to attempt at this level of market saturation. Do they think they're going to pull off another Apex or something? Wait...scratch that. That's exactly what they think. What they don't seem to understand is that you can't artificially force that to happen. The internet and consumer-base is too fickle. It's like trying to forcefully create E-Sports popularity. It never works.




    Originally Posted by TimesLostArc Go to original post
    It is about returns. To the investors/developers, all they have to do is recreate the exact model that Fortnite did and then simply profit. Most individual customers mean nothing(except for the whales), because in this case individual customers aren't willing to pay for anything and can't even be reliably trusted to even know what they want.

    When customers mean nothing and aren't a part of the financing process. Then their opinion is moot. It becomes a game of following trends and trying to recreate success.

    They adopt the mantra "if they just build it exactly the same way someone else did then the money will just come".

    Eventually investors may wisen up and realize that Fortnite was a fluke rather than a likely future. That period of time will likely be years from now.
    Exactly this.

    The problem is that Ubi is coming too late to the game with too little. The market/consumers have already determined what they like and where they're willing to spend their money. And the top dogs in the BR genre(Warzone and Apex) have already had enough time to refine their product to better suit that.

    So what's going to happen is that Ubisoft is going to release their title(likely with lots of bugs and over-monetization) while simultaneously fighting an uphill battle of trying to get consumers to break out of their existing emotional/financial attachment to those existing games.

    It might work for some, but not to the cash-printing degree that they likely expect. Maybe if they were bringing something new to the table. But they aren't. They're just copying the existing BR format, and copying aspects of the game modes from their existing titles. All at the potential risk of Hyperscape 2.0....also known as: Complete failure.
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  5. #45
    dagrommit's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by Cadillac-Jack Go to original post
    Trouble is it's not Nostalgia tinged memories it's a reality my end because as of now i play games on old machines now that i regard better than modern games.

    I still play games like Metroid Prime on my Gamecube not because of nostalgia, but because it's a brilliant game, well crafted and fun to play, i still play the original Tomb Raider on the Sega Saturn because its a well crafted fun game, Don't care about graphics much i care about (playability/fun and addictiveness) graphics are a secondary priority my end.
    "taste is subjective". As in, I can't stand platformers, yet you're happy to replay the ones from your youth. You don't care about graphics but a AAA game in 2021 is not going to sell well with 1998 graphics.
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  6. #46
    Cadillac-Jack's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by dagrommit Go to original post
    You don't care about graphics but a AAA game in 2021 is not going to sell well with 1998 graphics.
    True and i agree but the problem these days are.

    They concentrate on graphics but don't add substance to the actual game, instead they may great looking games full of monetization with little content/things to do or its a great looking game and we'll add the rest later in a 10 year plan or year Calendar that rarely comes to fruition . (whether for good or bad in people's opinions)

    Me i'd take content/playability over graphics any day of the week.
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  7. #47
    dagrommit's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by Cadillac-Jack Go to original post
    True and i agree but the problem these days are.

    They concentrate on graphics but don't add substance to the actual game, instead they may great looking games full of monetization with little content/things to do or its a great looking game and we'll add the rest later in a 10 year plan or year Calendar that rarely comes to fruition . (whether for good or bad in people's opinions)

    Me i'd take content/playability over graphics any day of the week.
    Again, taste is subjective. Some people want narrative focused single-player campaigns, others want open world sandboxes. Some people want their games to be grounded in the real world, others want sci-fi settings. Some people will play all of the above.

    Point being, there is an audience for all sorts of games, even if the existing space seems overcrowded - see the success of Warzone and Apex despite Fortnite having a few years lead on them.
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  8. #48
    Sircowdog1's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by Cadillac-Jack Go to original post
    Knights of the old Republic is better than every Star Wars game released since.
    I would agree to that statement....if it was limited to Star Wars RPGs. But in other genres we've also had the Jedi Academy games, Jedi Starfighter, and more recently, Fallen Order and Star Wars Squadrons. And there's something powerful to be said in favor of The Old Republic MMO.

    Granted, I'm pretty sure all of those games probably had larger teams than KOTOR 1 and 2.
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  9. #49
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    Originally Posted by AU_Nexus691 Go to original post
    It was a joke , have people forgot how to laugh these days ...

    I just posted my "personal opinion" on it and it was monetized because it referenced what was in the footage , for all we know the video could have been from ages ago and by now the game may have changed completely and probably will until release day , still not happy they are taking away people rights to freedom of speech when I'm not under any NDA
    We are no longer allowed to have an opinion.

    If you do, it has to "follow" THEIR guidelines, be typed in like a 2 year old speaking, and has to be so PC that it won't hurt the snowflakes itty bitty fweeelings....

    Otherwise they will remove it, warn you, and some "mods/devs" are so butt hurt they will just ban you instantly....

    Gaming & forums are becoming a JOKE!

    So, as I was told by a SNOWFLAKE.....

    "Play Nice, Quit Going Around The Word Filters, And Don't Be Rude"

    Glad you're hiding behind your computer somewhere in the world. Face to face I'd throat punch ya!

    How's those apples SNOWFLAKE!?

    Toodles!!
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  10. #50
    dagrommit's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by Ken_Koerperich Go to original post
    We are no longer allowed to have an opinion.
    Get over yourself. The deleted post referenced something under a NDA. Their house, their rules.

    Still amuses me how some people complain about free speech rights, then throw a tantrum when other people exercise those same rights in response.
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