Why gryphon doesn't need a nerf at this point in time. | Forums

[garr1999]

The devs stated that they are focusing on reaction based offense some of these nerfs
contradict that statement entirely gryphon, and warmonger are supposed to be the building blocks
towards having every character become "unreactable".

Nerfing them instead of having the out of place characters that have not been buffed to be
able to compete wouldn't be right overall his kick isn't the problem your just bad at adapting to
gryphon n I won't apologize for it because it's true for most.

The only thing I can agree with for gryphon is the feat nerfs they seemed strong
since I didn't touch the game but I'm planning to get back in once every hero is
reworked towards the reaction based perspective that the devs are working towards.

Just wait for the reworks then we'll know if gryphon deserves his nerfs I can tell he won't be meta
once the reworks roll in and devs don't cave to the masses n ruin what you've been trying to work towards.

Shinobi got animation shafted again but this might be a sign of a potential rework like with aramusha
when his forward dodge att animation got cut in half.

I'm still waiting to see if they'll also rework lawbro he's decent I'll agree but he still can't initiate people turtle him
constantly the only thing they should've changed was the missed bash ms so people can punish his shove
because him being able to block after a shove wasn't really fair to me but that's in the past.

Hopefully they'll do something with him, shinobi, HL, Jorm, n orochi again I don't think it's been said but I think
he needs his heavy side dodges back n instead of a bash maybe tozen's counter move.

[Knight_Raime]

Gryphon aside from his feats arguably did need addressing. The problem with this update is how they're doing it.

The dodge attack might still avoid too much despite having a fixed time of 300ms into the dodge. And the bash being changed makes sense in the grand scheme of things.
It was frustrating to "average" players. But was unhealthy as a defensive action for high level play as all 600ms neutral bashes are. (So too are dash/dodge bashes that can be done 100ms into the dodge.)

However they didn't do it properly. For 300-500ms into a dodge to work there needs to be a mix. Empty dodging into GB isn't a mix even for the fast bashes in the game because you're only ever looking at a single action reaction. His forward dodge attacks should've been buffed to compensate for the more reactable bash. I.e making forward dodge light enhanced, and the heavy be feintable. Then you could either make him able to dodge cancel his recovery so he could use the move in team fights more safely or let him chain on whiff so people can't just brain dead see orange and press dodge attack.

[MrBdur]

Gryphon aside from his feats arguably did need addressing. The problem with this update is how they're doing it.

The dodge attack might still avoid too much despite having a fixed time of 300ms into the dodge. And the bash being changed makes sense in the grand scheme of things.
It was frustrating to "average" players. But was unhealthy as a defensive action for high level play as all 600ms neutral bashes are. (So too are dash/dodge bashes that can be done 100ms into the dodge.)

However they didn't do it properly. For 300-500ms into a dodge to work there needs to be a mix. Empty dodging into GB isn't a mix even for the fast bashes in the game because you're only ever looking at a single action reaction. His forward dodge attacks should've been buffed to compensate for the more reactable bash. I.e making forward dodge light enhanced, and the heavy be feintable. Then you could either make him able to dodge cancel his recovery so he could use the move in team fights more safely or let him chain on whiff so people can't just brain dead see orange and press dodge attack.

I feel like the new bash input might still be mixup worthy with two other forward dodging options (light and heavy attack).

Who knows. Maybe an early dodge gives a free forward heavy?

[garr1999]

I agree he did need addressing n from your pov raime your right n for everyone who wants him nerfed we need to relay
about how nerfs are addressed in general. Once everyone starts screaming nerf devs are like we need to scrap how
the character functions viably so people don't complain. some of the things being nerfed is what makes
gryphon highly viable n unreactable which was the devs main focus point overall.

Unreactability n smart thinking is what makes a fighting game truly shine
i've never been into tekken or streetfighter but for honor was pretty much my first favorite.

Seeing people spam moves n dump feats does break me from the game but right now
it is managable because it can be countered and when we still have reworks coming
I just think it would be wise to take a wait n see approach n let the devs do their thing.

It's alright to make suggestions for nerfs just don't be whiny about
how the characters function is what I mean.

If we can be calm about it n make great suggestions the game can be more healthier in the long run but
if we're just not gonna adapt n learn around the unreactivity than what was the point of the devs hard work
when we chastise them to make changes to their efforts.

We have to let the devs know that some of these nerfs will be a mistake in the long run because
it won't benefit how for honor is as of now. Reddit (most of the time) n this forum are what
self-destruct the game not the devs. Sometimes devs screw up so we have to be there
to help them fix it not by whining to them.

While I know you (Raime), bdur, goat always make amazing posts I respect all of you
I can't say the same for everyone else tho sometimes It feels like there is no sanity
in for honor forums nowadays. Sometimes even I lose myself in the chaos n frustration
which I can only blame myself for.

[Knight_Raime]

I just post for mod attention these days. Much as I would love to make posts educating people like I used to I just don't feel like it's worth my time investment anymore. People are far too busy trying to balance/change the game based on their perception rather than understanding the game.

[MrBdur]

I just post for mod attention these days. Much as I would love to make posts educating people like I used to I just don't feel like it's worth my time investment anymore. People are far too busy trying to balance/change the game based on their perception rather than understanding the game.

Oh god I'm with you there.

Not much point in trying to explain why some things are this way or that way or why some things may be too strong or too weak.

There are people still arguing that LB never needed a nerf.

LOL

[garr1999]

I realize now that lawbringer definitely deserved the nerfs he was meta for too long
no one except a small majority noticed it beforehand only thing I really want
back for him is the top light or make his side lights faster so at least he can
initiate his chains without trouble even tho the sides can't be interrupted
when blocked they are easy to parry against someone in a higher bracket.

Hopefully in I am hoping they do that or rework his kit in the next testing grounds
hopefully make him less oppressive to deal in make him more fun to play.

[MrBdur]

The Gryphon nerfs are wonderful.

The bash is still VERY fast (regardless of what it says on paper), the side dodge attack is much less frustrating as any delay causes raw dodge followed by raw opener heavy attack lol.

The lowered kick followup damage doesnt change much but its welcome as well.

Overall, great job. Feels much healthier now and still a strong hero.

If Gryphon needs any more nerfs in the future, they should be minor tweaks. Don't gut another hero like you did to my girl Hito.

[garr1999]

I can definitely see gryphon is still viable n hopefully we can still watch him be played in the tourney
even though he isn't a meta pick competively.

Hitokiri was definitely a shell of her former self after the gutting but once the reworks roll
in she'll be back in the limelight until people start complaining about her for three
months.
Even tho berserker is basically the same as her no one complained
about him in year 5 even before hito's gutting n reworking i'm slightly surprised
no one did unless I missed it especially since his QoL changes will
make him slightly more annoying to deal with.

[MrBdur]

I can definitely see gryphon is still viable n hopefully we can still watch him be played in the tourney
even though he isn't a meta pick competively.

Hitokiri was definitely a shell of her former self after the gutting but once the reworks roll
in she'll be back in the limelight until people start complaining about her for three
months.
Even tho berserker is basically the same as her no one complained
about him in year 5 even before hito's gutting n reworking i'm slightly surprised
no one did unless I missed it especially since his QoL changes will
make him slightly more annoying to deal with.

Hito was a little too strong in the TG, as was Glad and Zhanhu. Ara was strong too but not OP.

I think the 3 too strong will be released a little bit less powerful than the TG versions.

I can't wait. I love having more heroes to play but I hate playing overtuned heroes. Lol