Does Without Remorse Set Up a Rainbow Six Movie? Short Michael B. Jordan "explains". | Forums

[ArgimonEd]

That is my point when I said:

Yeah @Kuzmitchs it's a movie, kind of hard to adapt the entire plot of a book into a movie that lasts 2h, while the book if you really are a fast reader and have nothing else to do will take at least 7h to read.
As to the final showdown in the movie, there are several examples of soldiers making last stands and surviving, there was the gurkha who was awarded the victoria cross and many others.
I think its plausible, not exactly like portrayed in the movie, but plausible.

It's an 2 hours movie, there wont be as much detail as a book that takes 7+ hours to read.
(No I'm not taking into consideration, those people that do nothing but read, read fast and miss several details of the story because they read it super fast to just reach the end of the story)

[BATTLEFACE]

I actually believe the book's story could've been condensed into a 2 hour film with changes for modernity. There's a ton of detail that isn't necessary for translation into film. Instead, they went with a generic revenge story that doesn't really allow John to shine as he does in the book. And honestly, Secretary of Defense Clay's (Guy Pearce) reasoning for trying to cause a rift between the US and Russia was pretty weak, in my opinion.

In the book, you also get a good understanding of why the character shows up in some of the Jack Ryan stories. It becomes clear why he's such a valuable asset to the CIA in the coming years. This could've been conveyed better in the film.

[ArgimonEd]

You would have needed more than 2 hours for that.
You gotta keep in mind that nowadays, people are more interested in the suspense and the action, not much the character development, if you want that you either make a tv show or you do it more like LOTR which had much more than 2 hours.
It was something of choosing between one or another .

[FCacGRdvWD]

Its actually not that different from the original novel @FCac.

Here's the plot:

In 1970, former Navy SEAL John Kelly, who recently lost his pregnant wife, Patricia, in a car accident, picks up a hitchhiker named Pam on his way to his home on Battery Island in the Chesapeake Bay. They quickly become lovers, and over time Kelly discovers her full name, Pamela Madden, and that she is a runaway who became a drug mule and prostitute; she has recently escaped from her drug-dealer/pimp Henry Tucker. Kelly, along with the help of doctors Sam and Sarah Rosen, help rehabilitate her from barbiturates. Weeks after recovering, Kelly and Pam go to Baltimore for follow-up treatment and pass through a neighborhood where her pimps work. One of them recognizes Pam and pursues them in a car chase. Kelly is gravely wounded by a shotgun blast, while Pam is recaptured and later tortured, gang-raped, and killed.

So he actually did lost someone in a similar manner to the way he lost his wife in the movie.

After that he does goes set for a private war (Much like the last Rambo movie)

Meanwhile, Kelly recovers from his wounds with the help of Dr. Rosen and his head nurse, Sandra 'Sandy' O'Toole. Vowing to exact revenge on the people responsible for Pam's death, he wages a private war on Tucker's drug ring, eliminating some of its players and saving some female drug mules in the process. He recruits Rosen and O'Toole to help rehabilitate one of the rescued prostitutes, Doris Brown. He later obtains more information on the drug ring from brutally torturing one of Pam's pimps, William Grayson, using a pressure chamber designed to simulate deep-water diving conditions; he is then left to die from severe decompression sickness.

So the movie isn't that far off, it simply tried to contextualize the plot around what is happening right now in the J.Ryan TV show.
And I think his team being killed is drawing inspiration from the conspiracy theory that some people involved in UBL raid, being killed.

Car accident vs being killed by the bad guy, to me personally, is night and day and depending how the movie develops is the difference between Swiss cheese and pastrami.

I tried to keep up with the plot and the story of the movie and it could have been easily my problem but I couldn't. One thing I remember fairly well and I still can't find the answer is what the hell happened to the 3 or 4 snipers after the dude bombs himself to pieces?

1.- A weapon malfunction on a super duper trained to the max Seal? I find that extremely hard to swallow and I still can't wrap my head around that tid bit but ok, say that it is very common or that it could happen, I mean why not, what the hell happened to the other 2 or 3? were they killed by miracle bullets or pixie dust? And if they were killed, when did that happened? I agree that the darkness of the whole CGI thing sucked the big one and I was so tired of it already that I could have fallen sleep but again, I don't remember if they were taken out or just like the story in BP when the hippies or sentinel answer questions, it was obvious so no need to explain it. Was this John kelly guy using The Force?

I mean, this guys puts Jean Claude Van Dame, Wesley Snipes and Chuck Norris to shame in close quarter combat
Hell, I thought the Punisher dude was a bad actor with an extremely bad and over the top voice but I don't know, this could be a toss up.

[BATTLEFACE]

Hey, I'm for a 3 hour film that has good story telling, character development and action . And by the looks of the current Metacritic and Rotten Tomato scores, not many people liked this film. So I'd say something went wrong here. Maybe they should've taken a cue from the past Jack Ryan films. And mind you, I've not read those books, but loved the films.

Perhaps they should have went the series route as that might've been the better way to tell John's story. At least nowadays.

[ArgimonEd]

Yeah, but them again his girlfriend got killed by bad guys in a much worse manner.

So there is no night and day difference there, someone really important to him, got killed by bad guys and that made him seek revenge.
But I agree there were a few things on the movie that I didn't liked, but like I said, movies nowadays are different from the movies we were used with.
It's not entirely a bad movie, by today standards it's good.
Could have done a few things better? For sure

[FCacGRdvWD]

Hey, I'm for a 3 hour film that has good story telling, character development and action . And by the looks of the current Metacritic and Rotten Tomato scores, not many people liked this film. So I'd say something went wrong here. Maybe they should've taken a cue from the past Jack Ryan films. And mind you, I've not read those books, but loved the films.

Perhaps they should have went the series route as that might've been the better way to tell John's story. At least nowadays.

+1

And Hence why I said what I said before. Watching those movies and hearing about how Bad *** TC was when writing those books, I never thought this was one of his books convert it into a Bollywood vomit

[ManticButton]

i disagree and think the plot was wildly different. John kelly in the novel comes across as a much more interesting individual. Off the bat, he's a udt frogman used on special operations, and gets called upon to help out in an important rescue mission. A mission that solely relies on him slipping into enemy territory undetected and taking a layout of the situation to give the okay for the rest of the troops to proceed with their insertion. At the same time, he's working on his own roque operation to take out those responsible for killing pam. I think the book casts an interesting dichotomy as, on one hand, we see john as a stand up, elite soldier. An all-american hero that's depended on for this big mission while on the other hand, he crosses the line into unlawful territory to exact revenge and take out the domestic bad guys.

I think the film was a decent revenge story, but it could have been labeled something else and would have still been ok. I also get that things need to align with the modern world as the book takes place in the viet nam era, but i feel the film kind of glossed over what made john an intriguing character.

My concern now is the next film we'll see him in the field with team rainbow and that the lore will be changed up even more. Will we even see ding chavez? Who knows.

if we don"t see ding chavez i swear to god

[Bambihunter71]

Regarding the comments above regarding a 7 hour book to a 2 hour movie, I'll inject this thought... Books spend a lot of time setting up a "scene". Describing who's present, the surroundings, day or night, peoples facial expressions, etc. Movies can show those things visually so a lot of literal written cues can be interpreted nearly instantaneously by our eyes and ears.

I'll admit I am not a big reader (having dysgraphia/dyslexia as a kid before the terms were even defined was not fun), but in college we did some comparisons and on average it was roughly a 3 - 1 "compression" from written to shown scene comprehension. What I mean is if it took 3 minutes to fully describe the scene and dialog in written form, it'd take a minute to portray the same information visually in a play or movie. Of course many of the best writers have an eloquent way that is hard to do a direct visual conversion. But, one can certainly see what they meant. For instance, it isn't hard to understand why it is said "a picture is worth a thousand words".


Enough of that... It has been a long time since I read the book. I remember that it seemed a lot more focused just on the revenge portion. The movie had it as well, but it didn't seem to me as much as the complete focus. I'll have to say however that the movie ended at an odd time. It seemed like it would have been better ending if it would have ended ~3 minutes earlier.

[EN075]

Movie was trash and I couldn’t help but feel like ubisoft produced it.

I loved the book but the only thing in common was the name.